I think the change in the audio was caused by my moving the camera towards the front of the motor and back again.
Seems like there is a knock coming from the rear rockers.

 

It was (exactly) the first 2 seconds of the vid that was a loud, higher pitch sound to me that instantly changed as you moved closer. The rest of it sounded more bass. Again, just curious about the recording, not focusing on any unusual noises of the engine.

I've tried to take video (audio) of my engine running with both phone and camera. It sounds like a thrashing machine on the recording, but totally acceptable in person.

Thanks

 

Just got the bike back from the dealer's shop. New injectors installed.
Unloaded it in my brother's heated garage. Today I went over and started it up.
The vibration seems just as bad or even worse.
I am thinking of trying to find someone that is willing to check the timing on the dam thing.

Curious that when in replace the original MAP sensor the vibration became worse. Looking for the original I took out, having a little problem finding where I put it.

Any ideas.

 

The bike has pushrod covers for adjustable pushrods - assuming that's from when they did the cam plate. There is no checking the timing other than using a scan tool as the ECM sets it and it is not mechanically adjustable. What is the exact complaint at this point - the engine shake?

 

When the cam plate was replace the original rods went back in. The rods were not cut. So I do not think there is any adjustments to be made there.
Yes, you would have to check the timing with the ECM. When I had it on a dyno the indi mechanic did not think it was a good idea to fool around with; just set the AFR. The dealer from day one has avoided any recognition of "My Problem". Even though they replace the engine mounts before they sold it to me. This was the first thing I check on and was surprise to find a new motor mount in place. So in my thinking they were aware of the vibration issue.
As stated in earlier posts the major concern is with the vibration the motor is generation. Last time I rode it my teeth would chatter it I did not have my mouth open.
I understand "Harley Shake" , but this vibration started out as an annoyance (ei. thinking the fairing mounts were bad) to what is now a genuine concern for the integrity of the engine.
For the problem to come and go is a wonderment to me.
About ready to sell the thing. I've put too much time and money into it already.

Thanks for your reply

 

If the heads were not removed, the original pushrods were cut and adjustables were installed. There would be no logical reason for it to have adjustable pushrod covers unless it had adjustable pushrods when you bought it, or they installed adjustables at the cam plate replacement.
You're talking about dynos and AFR - does the bike have a tuner?
You stated this is your first bike and several people have told you it's normal. If it literally makes closed mouth teeth chatter, I can't imagine that someone else wouldn't have said there is an issue but you say it comes and goes.
For a touring bike to have a serious vibration that the rider really feels, the rubber mounting system would be bypassed. The most common points of contact are the crossmember under the bike hitting the transmission pan (bent up), the mufflers sliding back and hitting the back of the mount, or something else creating a hard contact. The other thing is if the front motor mount has been replaced with a harder durometer rubber, it will vibrate more. I have had some harder front mounts I removed because they were too stiff (but that would not come and go).
For it to come and go, all I can think of is a hard contact - especially if there are no codes.
If all of this checks out and several people familiar with Harleys are saying it's normal, it might just not be best to get rid of it if you are truly unhappy. In your original post you say it vibrated from day one, then you replaced a fuel line and it ran perfect like when it was new - but this is your first bike and you never had it when it was new.

 

Ed thanks for the reply. I will try and answer some of you questions.

First on the question of the bike having adjustable rods. I am confident that they are not adjustable. The Indy who did the dyno stated as much while looking at the bike, and question why the dealer did not cut the rods and install adjustable ones. I assume he was looking at the push rod covers and could just tell by looking at them at a distance of some 20 feet.
I have also checked the work order form the Dealer and the are no listing on the bill for adjustable rods. There is a listing for gaskets for the rocker covers. I assume that is how the rods were remover. (ei.by removing the rockers)

No I do not have a tuner on the bike. The Indy used his equipment and I paid the licensing fee to Harley.
I questioned the Indy about checking the timing and he stated that he dose not mess with the timing.

I noticed this vibration from the first ride on it. I asked around and people were of the opinion that that’s how Harley’s run. Even had the Manager of the Dealership laugh at me saying that I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. I even took it to the Indy who later did the dyno and he said that there was nothing to be concerned about.

If you notice I my prior posts I mentioned the muffler incident and the fuel line incident. I am not going to repost the details of these incidents here.

But I did stated that it ran “like a new motor”. I should have said “a totally different motor”.

This is why I am referring to this vibration as “my problem”.

After the Indy had it on the dyno he asked me if I wanted to take it for a ride. I said no, you take it for a ride. I watched as he took off WOT, noting the front of the bike rise up as he went through the first couple of gears.

When I left for home, I knew within a block that the vibration was still there. It was on the ride home, on a newly paved road , that I noticed that by shutting my mouth. It would make my teeth chatter.

The purpose of the dyno was to address the vibration issue. The bike at the time of the dyno only had slip-ons installed. Not real need for a dyno. Right? Put a high flow AC on at the advice of the Indy for the dyno though.

Bike went from 68.45 to 76.54 Power - and 73.97 to 83.30 torque. And vibrates like I’m sitting of a big FN *****.

So “My Problem”

I hope the flywheel has not scissored. I have been assured that this would not come and go. Unscissored?

Replace fuel injectors.

Tried a whole list of thing… As mentioned in prior posts.

Looking at back stepping.

Putting the replace sensors back in. (a service tec at the dealership tells me that anything but Harley sensors are crap) So out will go the Fueling MAP sensor and the TPS. (note) There was a noticeable increase in the vibration after installing the MAP sensor. Old sensor seem loose, worn nipple.

Did not replace the fuel line from the quick disconnect to the fuel bar. Someone mentioned doing this. I mentioned it to the dealer to check rail etc. Was it done????

Check the noise coming form the rear rockers.
See if I can turn the pushrods by hand.

Pretty sure the rear cylinder is running lean. Put 50 mile on new plugs at one time last summer and the rear one was noticeable lighter that the front.
Old injectors were noticeably different in color.

What else to check???

That’s what I am doing here.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

I had a brain fart and reversed the covers in my minds eye. Ignore what I said about adjustable covers - my apologies.

A shifted flywheel would not come and go, and odds are your oil pump really would have been a lot worse if the flywheel shifted.

It's normal to see the front rise under WOT accel so that's not an issue.

If it has not had any fuel mapping done, it's running lean with slip ons and an air cleaner being a pre-O2 sensor bike but I highly doubt that would make your teeth chatter as a miss and a vibration are two different things.

Injectors are not in the combustion chamber so not really understanding the color reference there.

The MAP sensor is a standard Delphi and the red rubber seal is readily available.

The video is terrible to try and diagnose sounds but if it's really bad an H-D tech should pick up on it.

Have you looked at the crossmember under the trans pan to see how close it is to the pan or if it's bent up? Have you checked that the mufflers didn't slide back and are hitting the brackets?

If the indy shop and a dealer are telling you the shake is normal, my only suggestion would be to get another opinion but if they say it is as well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

I will keep plugging away at it.
Yes. Why would the injectors have a noticeable color difference?
Leak in the throttle body.
Things to check on.
I trust the Indy, so I am going to have a talk with him this week.
May be awhile before I can get up to my brother's shop.
Just blew my driveway out, looking at more snow tomorrow.

 

Another thing you could check you yourself is the rear pushrods. easy to do, takes a minute, and free - silver is intake, black is exhaust. They are different lengths. You say there is a rocker noise on the rear so can't hurt.