Crank runout
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,830
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From: Lorain Ohio
Crank runout
My buddy wants me to go with him to find out what's up with his bike. He has a 2016 FatBoy 110S. 2 years ago he took it to Roeder's Motorcycle in Ohio for a performance build. They have (or had?) a reputation for quality engine work an tuning. They bored the cylinders, installed matching pistons, I assume a compression bump, .630 lift cams, ported and polished the stock 110 heads, lifters, hi flow oil pump, clutch, 2 into one an tune. He dropped about 6-7K an the dyno sheet they gave him came in with 115 hp 135 torque. They may have retuned it for more after some break in miles.
The bike smoked from day one on start up. I assumed it just needed to have some break in miles an the rings to seat. After every oil change the oil would look nasty after a few hundred miles. He stores it there an has any work done during the winter. This year he mentioned the black smoke an black oil. They said they'd look it over an have it ready for spring.
They called this week an said his crank runout is .008 an it's causing the problems an want him to come out an discuss his options. I've heard the twin cam cranks are suspect an the 110's among the worst. I also read Harley now considers .012 acceptable an he should be OK with .008. Could this be the results of poor assembly? Could the ring gaps be wrong an causing his problems? I don't know if they're going to "work with him" on making this right or if they are in any way responsible. I hear getting a crank trued runs $3K.
I appreciate any info. I've been reading but nothing addresses his circumstances. I hope to get some ideas to throw around while there an I'll update this post after hearing them in person. I'm going off his account of what they said. I do my own work so I know enough to be dangerous. I did my own cams an pulled the heads to take in to be cleaned up.
I forgot the bike has 16K on it
The bike smoked from day one on start up. I assumed it just needed to have some break in miles an the rings to seat. After every oil change the oil would look nasty after a few hundred miles. He stores it there an has any work done during the winter. This year he mentioned the black smoke an black oil. They said they'd look it over an have it ready for spring.
They called this week an said his crank runout is .008 an it's causing the problems an want him to come out an discuss his options. I've heard the twin cam cranks are suspect an the 110's among the worst. I also read Harley now considers .012 acceptable an he should be OK with .008. Could this be the results of poor assembly? Could the ring gaps be wrong an causing his problems? I don't know if they're going to "work with him" on making this right or if they are in any way responsible. I hear getting a crank trued runs $3K.
I appreciate any info. I've been reading but nothing addresses his circumstances. I hope to get some ideas to throw around while there an I'll update this post after hearing them in person. I'm going off his account of what they said. I do my own work so I know enough to be dangerous. I did my own cams an pulled the heads to take in to be cleaned up.
I forgot the bike has 16K on it
Last edited by langwilliams; Mar 2, 2022 at 09:20 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,900
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From: poway
Few things.
The bike shouldn't smoke unless you are re-ringing a 1960 Ford falcon straight 6..
A twisted crank won't cause smoke unless it's sheading metal.
Could be a bad valve seal.
I wouldn't build a motor that makes much over 100 hp without a straighter crank. Don't care what HD says is OK.
What was the runout at the time of the build?
The bike shouldn't smoke unless you are re-ringing a 1960 Ford falcon straight 6..
A twisted crank won't cause smoke unless it's sheading metal.
Could be a bad valve seal.
I wouldn't build a motor that makes much over 100 hp without a straighter crank. Don't care what HD says is OK.
What was the runout at the time of the build?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,544
Likes: 6,419
From: Honah Lee
Bet there loving that cash cow. Be careful, your rocking the boat. Just my opinion and only since you ask.
Just my opinion but they didn't build it right and it didn't last long. And also some of it could just be the operator.
You watch the India 500 few weeks ago. When one drives like it's a race, things break and rest assured those racers aren't using the same motor in their next race.
Just my opinion but they didn't build it right and it didn't last long. And also some of it could just be the operator.
You watch the India 500 few weeks ago. When one drives like it's a race, things break and rest assured those racers aren't using the same motor in their next race.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 439
From: florida
Could pull the plugs and see if any white crystal like deposits are there at the electrode, that can be a sign of oil blow by and poor ring seal or ring gaps lined up. Pulling the AC and scoping or reaching deep in there checking for oil in the intake runners too would be easy enough. If it’s smoking there will most likely be a sign
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,569
Likes: 624
From: deland,florida
no HD dealer that i know of would be recommended for any performance work and very few actually do their own machine work.your buddy needs to find a good indy,equipt with the right tooling,machine equipment & know how to do a proper job
Stage III
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
From: TX
Most cam companies require 5 thousandths or less of crank runout if you are installing geared cams.
Every decent engine builder should check the runout of the crank before they build an engine off it. I would have the runout checked every time the cam chest is opened.
As stated above, crank runout shouldn't directly cause an engine to smoke. Unless the runout is shredding bearings and then those bearing shreds are destroying piston rings or valve seals prior to getting filtered out by the oil filter.
If the engine wasn't smoking prior to the engine build, it definitely shouldn't have been smoking right after.
Every decent engine builder should check the runout of the crank before they build an engine off it. I would have the runout checked every time the cam chest is opened.
As stated above, crank runout shouldn't directly cause an engine to smoke. Unless the runout is shredding bearings and then those bearing shreds are destroying piston rings or valve seals prior to getting filtered out by the oil filter.
If the engine wasn't smoking prior to the engine build, it definitely shouldn't have been smoking right after.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,830
Likes: 302
From: Lorain Ohio
Few things.
The bike shouldn't smoke unless you are re-ringing a 1960 Ford falcon straight 6..
A twisted crank won't cause smoke unless it's sheading metal.
Could be a bad valve seal.
I wouldn't build a motor that makes much over 100 hp without a straighter crank. Don't care what HD says is OK.
What was the runout at the time of the build?
The bike shouldn't smoke unless you are re-ringing a 1960 Ford falcon straight 6..
A twisted crank won't cause smoke unless it's sheading metal.
Could be a bad valve seal.
I wouldn't build a motor that makes much over 100 hp without a straighter crank. Don't care what HD says is OK.
What was the runout at the time of the build?
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Thread Starter
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
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Likes: 302
From: Lorain Ohio
I'm pretty sure they put a soft tune in the bike for the first thousand miles then had him bring it back to be retuned. I was thinking they are hoping he'll just throw money at them to keep working on the bike. The money's not in bikes like it was 15 years ago. This place isn't a HD dealership. They used to be an they were respected in racing circles for the bikes they built. That was a while ago. Engine builders move on or retire so who knows. My friend makes a ton of cash but he works a ton of hours to do it so he pays for stuff to be done for him. The heads were done so I didn't consider a valve seal problem but poor work could have caused it. He does hammer the crap out of it too. He's one of "those guys" that loves to rev it up every time he's idling to hear it.
I cant imagine crank runout causing oil to burn, especially since while not great. Is still OK. Just not how the systems of an engine function for that to cause oil burning.
If its always smoked since the build I would highly suspect too much ring gap and/or valve guides/seals. Especially since he head work done, they wouldve had to pull valves out.
If its always smoked since the build I would highly suspect too much ring gap and/or valve guides/seals. Especially since he head work done, they wouldve had to pull valves out.
Last edited by 2500hdon37s; Mar 3, 2022 at 02:54 PM.