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Engine Mechanical TopicsDiscussion for motor builds, cams, head work, stripped bolts and other engine related issues. The good and the bad. If it goes round and around or up and down, post it here.
Hi, doing cam chain tensioners, lifters and inner cam bearings on a TC 88. I did not remove the oil pump from the cam plate and didn’t plan on it, but I’m wondering if it will be worth the risk of the alignment or not. Should I or is it ok to leave it?
also, for the alignment if you have to spin the rear wheel while tightening and the cam chain and sprockets are off - how do you get them in alignment and not 180 off? Worried about timing.
Put the two timing marks on the gears pointing together. with the chain on. Rotate the motor one revolution, the crank mark will be back as it was and the cam gear will be 180° off. Turn the motor one more complete revolution, the two timing marks are back together again. What you did was put the motor through the four cycles. So point them together, can't be wrong.
While you have it apart, check the crank pinion shaft runout. And I would take the pump loose so that I could inspect it for excessive wear. When you put it back, attach the pump loose to the cam plate, then put the cam plate on the motor. Have someone slowly rotate the motor (in fifth gear) while snugging down the oil pump bolts in a criss cross pattern. Once snug, remove the screw one at a time, add a little blue Loctite to the screw, torque it to spec. Do the same for the other three one by one. Follow the factory torque methods carefully. For the cam plate screws, the two screw holes in the case inside the two alignment dowls are sensitive to stripping. Make sure all screw holes are clean, blown out and dry. Again, follow the factory torque methods carefully.
There are two methods I use to align the pump.
(1) In a rebuild with a nice straight crankshaft with zero runout, I use the Feuling pump alignment tool and tighten the oil pump screws. It's 100% straight with this tool.
(2) If there is some crank runout that you can live with, then use the crank to align the pump as mentioned above, spinning the crank slowly while tightening the pump screws.
Thank you for all the info. Seems best I take the oil pump apart for inspection. I’ll order a dial indicator so I can check crank runout. If I didn’t take the oil pump off would I still need to align? What about the alignment pins they sell on Amazon, do those work?
What I am not understanding about the timing is that if the crank mark rotates twice for every single rotation of the cam sprocket isn’t there a chance I could align to the wrong rotation?
Originally Posted by Ohio HD
Put the two timing marks on the gears pointing together. with the chain on. Rotate the motor one revolution, the crank mark will be back as it was and the cam gear will be 180° off. Turn the motor one more complete revolution, the two timing marks are back together again. What you did was put the motor through the four cycles. So point them together, can't be wrong.
While you have it apart, check the crank pinion shaft runout. And I would take the pump loose so that I could inspect it for excessive wear. When you put it back, attach the pump loose to the cam plate, then put the cam plate on the motor. Have someone slowly rotate the motor (in fifth gear) while snugging down the oil pump bolts in a criss cross pattern. Once snug, remove the screw one at a time, add a little blue Loctite to the screw, torque it to spec. Do the same for the other three one by one. Follow the factory torque methods carefully. For the cam plate screws, the two screw holes in the case inside the two alignment dowls are sensitive to stripping. Make sure all screw holes are clean, blown out and dry. Again, follow the factory torque methods carefully.
There are two methods I use to align the pump.
(1) In a rebuild with a nice straight crankshaft with zero runout, I use the Feuling pump alignment tool and tighten the oil pump screws. It's 100% straight with this tool.
(2) If there is some crank runout that you can live with, then use the crank to align the pump as mentioned above, spinning the crank slowly while tightening the pump screws.
Great info above by Mr. O.
Only thing I did different is I used the 2 tapered alignment pins that my manual described. While I had it apart, I wanted to verify and inspect everything. The FSM is very good and pretty straightforward to the procedure.
Thank you for all the info. Seems best I take the oil pump apart for inspection. I’ll order a dial indicator so I can check crank runout. If I didn’t take the oil pump off would I still need to align? What about the alignment pins they sell on Amazon, do those work?
What I am not understanding about the timing is that if the crank mark rotates twice for every single rotation of the cam sprocket isn’t there a chance I could align to the wrong rotation?
You do not have to take the pump off, it'll go back together as is. My concern is if you have runout say more than 0.008", I'd be concerned there may be some pump wear. If it's more runout than that, I would definitely look at the pump. But I aways do because I don't like surprises.
If you put the two timing marks together and also use the mark on the cam plate to add an additional reference, it can't be wrong. Providing the cams are aligned correctly with each other.
The rear cam is keyed to the cam gear, the crank is keyed to the crank gear. The cam and crank goes where the gears go. So if they are aligned, they are correct. You have to understand how the four cycles work, and know what the motor is doing inside when rotating the crank.
Keep in mind, the cam gear should be 180° out to the crank gear when the crank is rotated one full rotation after the gears and chain is on. Then one more full rotation of the crank and the cam and crank are where they started. Like I said before, the two cams must also be aligned correctly.
If you don't have a factory service manual, it would be a good investment if you plan to do this type of work on your bike.
I've done it both ways.. I think that it's important to grease / oil the parts lightly to ensure the O ring doesn't become twisted.. In the pic of the pump above, the spigot has semi sharp edges, I'd place o ring on the pump. The case has a lead in. I'll make sure that it is free of burrs with either scotch-brite or 600 grit wet and dry. Doesn't need a lot just not sharp to the finger. Make sure to clean it out.
On early 99-2001 pump there may be a casting ridge on the spigot but I'd get a 2001- up pump unless going over say 110 ci. I ran the stock 2000 pump for a short while in a 116 without issue as far as the pump goes..
I checked the runout, just under .003. I also inspected the oil pump, the inside looked fine but there is a little wear on the feed pump rotors. I can’t feel any scratches, my nail doesn’t catch anything. The cam plate didn’t show any wear. Is this ok?
also, how do the indicator dots on the rotors line up? The manual just said to align them, as long as they are aligned they are ok?
Originally Posted by Ohio HD
You do not have to take the pump off, it'll go back together as is. My concern is if you have runout say more than 0.008", I'd be concerned there may be some pump wear. If it's more runout than that, I would definitely look at the pump. But I aways do because I don't like surprises.
If you put the two timing marks together and also use the mark on the cam plate to add an additional reference, it can't be wrong. Providing the cams are aligned correctly with each other.
The rear cam is keyed to the cam gear, the crank is keyed to the crank gear. The cam and crank goes where the gears go. So if they are aligned, they are correct. You have to understand how the four cycles work, and know what the motor is doing inside when rotating the crank.
Keep in mind, the cam gear should be 180° out to the crank gear when the crank is rotated one full rotation after the gears and chain is on. Then one more full rotation of the crank and the cam and crank are where they started. Like I said before, the two cams must also be aligned correctly.
If you don't have a factory service manual, it would be a good investment if you plan to do this type of work on your bike.
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TC 88 Oil Pump
