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TC -ION Sensing Detection Explained

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  #21  
Old 06-10-2015, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JustDave13
Ions are charged particles (atoms), when a flame front occurs pressure increases and more ion current is generated.
From I remember this ion front is picked up across the spark plug gap inducing a voltage back into the coil. The ecm picks up this charge and sees it as a detonation event.
IIRC

This technology is evolving
Knock creates a pressure oscillation in the combustion chamber that is reflected in the current measurement.

I copied this from your link very good. so basically it does not measure the resistance of the plugs or wires , but it is using the spark plug as it were as a sensor measuring what is happening in the combustion chamber.
 
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JustDave13
Here's an article that puts it in simple terms
You must be a rocket engineer?..
 
  #23  
Old 06-10-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by joenash
Knock creates a pressure oscillation in the combustion chamber that is reflected in the current measurement.

I copied this from your link very good. so basically it does not measure the resistance of the plugs or wires , but it is using the spark plug as it were as a sensor measuring what is happening in the combustion chamber.
Yes, it measures current, this is why having the proper ignition components in place is important.
According to the ion sensing info I've read engineers are looking at using ion sensing to control spark timing and fuel mixture, as well as detecting misfire and knock events.
This looks to be one of the biggest automotive tech breakthroughs in years. If engine designers start basing the whole engine tune off of ion sensing it would radically change the way engine tuning is done.
Originally Posted by RIPSAW
You must be a rocket engineer?..
LOL no, I'm an auto tech with 25 years under my belt
 
  #24  
Old 06-10-2015, 02:24 PM
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I read this thread just for fun; I am EFI challenged. However the read did make me realize how much I love my carbureted all bore 107" motor in my '02 FLHT; 122TQ/110HP; 100TQ by 2000 rpms, 87octane and no knock. I do get some pinging when south Texas heat kicks up near 100* but I can hear the ping and start running 93 octane to solve the problem.
 

Last edited by djl; 06-10-2015 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JustDave13
Yes, it measures current, this is why having the proper ignition components in place is important.
According to the ion sensing info I've read engineers are looking at using ion sensing to control spark timing and fuel mixture, as well as detecting misfire and knock events.
This looks to be one of the biggest automotive tech breakthroughs in years. If engine designers start basing the whole engine tune off of ion sensing it would radically change the way engine tuning is done.

LOL no, I'm an auto tech with 25 years under my belt
Yes that is why a lot of cars don't have cam and knock sensors , their is a spark plug in every cylinder they can use to monitor that cylinder. and adjust spark and fuel. All because of computers.
 
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JustDave13

LOL no, I'm an auto tech with 25 years under my belt

You are lucky this stuff is getting more complicated all the time cause of the epa and the government wanting less emissions and better fuel economy.

It is tough cause people think you just hook your scanner to the car and it tells you what is wrong! Wrong you still have to test those sensors and check those wires and voltages and resistance.
 
  #27  
Old 06-10-2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by djl
I read this thread just for fun; I am EFI challenged. However the read did make me realize how much I love my carbureted all bore 107" motor in my '02 FLHT; 122TQ/110HP; 100TQ by 2000 rpms, 87octane and no knock. I do get some pinging when south Texas heat kicks up near 100* but I can hear the ping and start running 93 octane to solve the problem.
Yes you are lucky, but their are some people that think carbs are complicated.
I wish I had a carb on my bike, it would have been tuned by now.LOL...
 
  #28  
Old 06-10-2015, 05:26 PM
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+3 on the carb.
 
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:29 AM
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Minus one on the carb. Got to keep in mind that the engine life is 1/3 less on most carb engines. It is due to the fact that most of the time, a lot of wear due to cold start rich fuel ratio mixtures washing the lubrication from the cylinders. Fuel to air ratio on a carb from idle to wot is stone-age crude compared to a computer controlled injection system. Even my 04 without oxygen sensors has hundreds of variables in it throughout the range.
 

Last edited by Jackie Paper; 06-11-2015 at 06:38 AM.
  #30  
Old 06-11-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RIPSAW
Minus one on the carb. Got to keep in mind that the engine life is 1/3 less on most carb engines. It is due to the fact that most of the time, a lot of wear due to cold start rich fuel ratio mixtures washing the lubrication from the cylinders. Fuel to air ratio on a carb from idle to wot is stone-age crude compared to a computer controlled injection system. Even my 04 without oxygen sensors has hundreds of variables in it throughout the range.
I would have to call BS on that statement; show me the supporting data. If one is judicious in the use of the fuel enrichener on cold starts, I say that the carbed motor life is not shortened by 30%; I might buy 10% but not 30%. Even so, a small price to pay for the convenience. I have made three cam changes, two exhaust changes, two head changes on my all bore 107 without a visit to the local dyno tuner. When I finally had the configuration I wanted, I paid $30 for a couple of pulls on a dyno to dial in the main and the needle settings and I was done; hard to do that with EFI.

I would not argue that I could probably squeeze another few TQ/HP from the motor with EFI but the marginal increase, for me, is not worth giving up the convenience afforded by a carbed motor; each to his own.
 
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