another 'help me choose' thread - cams… 583/574/555
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,392
Likes: 43
From: South Australia
Mine has no head work yet and has plenty down low all the way to up high. I do a lot of high speed riding but it has awesome low end torque as well.
97hp and 114 ft/lbs on the dyno, wheel stands through the gears, personally I don't see the use of a lower cam Unless you were two up all the time and in a heavier bike.
I am 1up 98% of the time and like you! around town, highway riding, and sometimes carrying a bit of gear for camping.
This is just my observations, it's a fantastic cam but I'm not saying the 583 isn't but I have no experience with it.
Cheers!
97hp and 114 ft/lbs on the dyno, wheel stands through the gears, personally I don't see the use of a lower cam Unless you were two up all the time and in a heavier bike.
I am 1up 98% of the time and like you! around town, highway riding, and sometimes carrying a bit of gear for camping.
This is just my observations, it's a fantastic cam but I'm not saying the 583 isn't but I have no experience with it.
Cheers!
you might want to look at the feuling 543 cams, they should offer you close to what your looking for without having to go into any extensive headwork
Last edited by NSCoyote; Apr 1, 2014 at 09:04 AM.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,779
Likes: 2,609
From: san antonio
JMHO but don't rely on dyno numbers posted by other members; meaningless. Your valve springs will accomodate up to .600" lift without coil bind; not limited to .585" as previously posted.
The '06 heads were much improved over the previous years but you really should have the heads worked to optimize performance. The '06 heads flow better below .500" than previous years but flow drops off significantly in both above .500" lift. So, without headwork, it doesn't make much sense to run cams with lifts approaching .600". Granted, the intake is open longer so there is some benefit but not much a flow has flattened out.
You might want to rethink your plan and talk to a few head porters, pick one and work with the porter to select cams, set compression, etc. Those guys all have their preferences but know what works and what doesn't and when they tell you that a certain combination will produce 110/115 numbers, you can believe them because they have done it over and over again.
The '06 heads were much improved over the previous years but you really should have the heads worked to optimize performance. The '06 heads flow better below .500" than previous years but flow drops off significantly in both above .500" lift. So, without headwork, it doesn't make much sense to run cams with lifts approaching .600". Granted, the intake is open longer so there is some benefit but not much a flow has flattened out.
You might want to rethink your plan and talk to a few head porters, pick one and work with the porter to select cams, set compression, etc. Those guys all have their preferences but know what works and what doesn't and when they tell you that a certain combination will produce 110/115 numbers, you can believe them because they have done it over and over again.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,392
Likes: 43
From: South Australia
I know dyno numbers can vary but I wouldn't say it's totally meaningless, still good for a guide. I was just trying to give some overall feedback on my mild build
Last edited by Tat2u; Apr 1, 2014 at 03:11 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,464
Likes: 50
From: Rouses Point, N.Y.
if your going to use the s&s 106 and keep the stock heads the 570 ez starts are a good choise will hit harder down lower then the 585's and will be at the correct compression of 10.1:1 just put together a fatboy with the same setup per recomedation of hillside cycle scott said it will be just over a 100 hp when its tuned with that setup. the 585;s really need to be at 10.5:1 but really like 10.8:1 compression . as djl stated the stock springs will handle up to .600 lift, ran the 585's for 3000 miles with no issues. and they were very quiet compared to the woods cams in the motor previously. if you wanted to save some money hillside cycle is running a special on a kit 107 s&s 570's, complete gasket kit ,clutch spring etc for $989.00 which is less than the 106 kit plus all the goodies to build it.
most manufacturers will be able to tell you what compression range the cams work best in but talk with a competent builder in your area abotu the specific cam you want vs yuor specific set up
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 542
Likes: 4
From: Louisville, KY
The CR required will be a function of how early the intake closes. With an early closing 'torque' cam, the stated CR will be lower like 9.6-10.0 because there is a longer column to compress. Late closers need a higher CR to make up for the shorter column compressed. Both yeild the same cylinder pressures are the point of ignition.
There is a pretty complete cam chart with everyone's cam specs around here someplace. When you start comparing you will note the strong similarities between everyone's low, mid high and full race cams. The Wood 222/555/777 are execellent specs to study and learn the differences.
The S&S 570's are popular for their versitility. They are at home in a stock 96" through a 107" with flowed 10.5CR heads. That compression release trick is real handy on an old 10.0+ bike on a hot day.
EDIT: Oh yeah. The .585 spring spec was just a working factory number for the late stock 7mm valve stems with the beehive valve springs with stock 150#(???) seat pressure good to 6,900 rpm. Of course not to say that at .586 to .600 the valve trane will explode but by that time most folks with those lifts are usually way past that in their build.
There is a pretty complete cam chart with everyone's cam specs around here someplace. When you start comparing you will note the strong similarities between everyone's low, mid high and full race cams. The Wood 222/555/777 are execellent specs to study and learn the differences.
The S&S 570's are popular for their versitility. They are at home in a stock 96" through a 107" with flowed 10.5CR heads. That compression release trick is real handy on an old 10.0+ bike on a hot day.
EDIT: Oh yeah. The .585 spring spec was just a working factory number for the late stock 7mm valve stems with the beehive valve springs with stock 150#(???) seat pressure good to 6,900 rpm. Of course not to say that at .586 to .600 the valve trane will explode but by that time most folks with those lifts are usually way past that in their build.
Last edited by Mr Bentwrench; Apr 4, 2014 at 01:51 AM.
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,779
Likes: 2,609
From: san antonio
The CR required will be a function of how early the intake closes. With an early closing 'torque' cam, the stated CR will be lower like 9.6-10.0 because there is a longer column to compress. Late closers need a higher CR to make up for the shorter column compressed. Both yeild the same cylinder pressures are the point of ignition.
There is a pretty complete cam chart with everyone's cam specs around here someplace. When you start comparing you will note the strong similarities between everyone's low, mid high and full race cams. The Wood 222/555/777 are execellent specs to study and learn the differences.
The S&S 570's are popular for their versitility. They are at home in a stock 96" through a 107" with flowed 10.5CR heads. That compression release trick is real handy on an old 10.0+ bike on a hot day.
EDIT: Oh yeah. The .585 spring spec was just a working factory number for the late stock 7mm valve stems with the beehive valve springs with stock 150#(???) seat pressure good to 6,900 rpm. Of course not to say that at .586 to .600 the valve trane will explode but by that time most folks with those lifts are usually way past that in their build.
There is a pretty complete cam chart with everyone's cam specs around here someplace. When you start comparing you will note the strong similarities between everyone's low, mid high and full race cams. The Wood 222/555/777 are execellent specs to study and learn the differences.
The S&S 570's are popular for their versitility. They are at home in a stock 96" through a 107" with flowed 10.5CR heads. That compression release trick is real handy on an old 10.0+ bike on a hot day.
EDIT: Oh yeah. The .585 spring spec was just a working factory number for the late stock 7mm valve stems with the beehive valve springs with stock 150#(???) seat pressure good to 6,900 rpm. Of course not to say that at .586 to .600 the valve trane will explode but by that time most folks with those lifts are usually way past that in their build.
There is much more to cam selection than intake close but agree that intake close is important when calculating corrected CR and CCP. However, two cams can have the same intake close but act completely different depending on intake and exhaust duration, overlap and LSA.
Last edited by djl; Apr 4, 2014 at 01:19 PM.
So I took a couple of hours and read through the sticky and compared a few of the popular cams and I'm still quite puzzled - partly because I don't have a tach, partly because a lot of the descriptions and comments a relative/subjective.
What some people (or marketing description) refer to as midrange cams look really quite torquey (<40 closing, <240 duration)… I received an email from S&S about the MR103 but if I follow the sticky it looks more low end??? My stock 96 is already able to beat any car off the line and I'm not looking for wheelies!
For a 1-up dyna, city riding and mountain highways am I correct in thinking that an intake close of 40-45 and a duration 240-245 would be about right?
If so, seems the TW-555 fits the bill according to the sticky but the S&S570 and Fueling 574 are also very close…
Maybe I should just pick one, ride the damn thing for a while and improve what I don't like, if anything. Oh money, why must you be so scarce!
What some people (or marketing description) refer to as midrange cams look really quite torquey (<40 closing, <240 duration)… I received an email from S&S about the MR103 but if I follow the sticky it looks more low end??? My stock 96 is already able to beat any car off the line and I'm not looking for wheelies!
For a 1-up dyna, city riding and mountain highways am I correct in thinking that an intake close of 40-45 and a duration 240-245 would be about right?
If so, seems the TW-555 fits the bill according to the sticky but the S&S570 and Fueling 574 are also very close…
Maybe I should just pick one, ride the damn thing for a while and improve what I don't like, if anything. Oh money, why must you be so scarce!