'95 FXDWG - Eerie Random Engine Noise
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,091
Likes: 7,611
From: Poolville
Well, $9.25 inner spring and $4.96 valve seal and we're on the road again.
And, that's Cdn dollars!
Yes, the right way to do it would be to replace all the springs and that's my plan for the winter. The reality is that springs do fail. It doesn't take too many google searches to hear all kinds of accounts of high-end springs failing on all kinds of HD's. So I figured since the bike ran mint, no valve/guide/piston damage, no leakdown issues, I would just replace it and ride it.
I used a bit of a hillbilly trick to get the valve springs back on without removing the head or buying a special tool or building one.
1. (1) heavy duty zip tie, quality brand
2. (1) 10" long piece of 2x4
3. (2) 24" pry bar
Pressurize the cylinder. Put the 2 springs together, weave the zip tie in one side, down the center, and back out the same side. Start one coil down from the top and finish one coil up from the bottom. Put the springs in a bench vice and compress (but not till they bind) and then cinch the zip tie nice and tight. Yes, the spring assembly will be a little ****-eyed because of the zip tie being on one side only, but that's why you have the pry bar. Put the springs in place. Place the 2x4 in a heavy duty ziplock bag to prevent any debris getting in the engine. Then put it in between the frame and the valve stem and use the pry bar to even out the high side of the springs. The first keeper will drop right in (I use a magnetic retriever) and second will require a bit of maneuvering with the pry bar. Took about 20 minutes - my first time.
I am seeing more and more ways that zip ties can be used for repairs and they are fantastic for keeping any kind of spring at bay.
You can see that the old valve stem seal got pretty pulverized by the inner spring. I'm going to do an oil change tomorrow afternoon and cut open the oil filter for kicks.
The only mistake I made was somehow screwing up the push rod tubes and the middle collar ended up at the underside of the head and thus the oring did not seal so we had a bit of a leak, but that is now quickly resolved.
And, that's Cdn dollars!
Yes, the right way to do it would be to replace all the springs and that's my plan for the winter. The reality is that springs do fail. It doesn't take too many google searches to hear all kinds of accounts of high-end springs failing on all kinds of HD's. So I figured since the bike ran mint, no valve/guide/piston damage, no leakdown issues, I would just replace it and ride it.
I used a bit of a hillbilly trick to get the valve springs back on without removing the head or buying a special tool or building one.
1. (1) heavy duty zip tie, quality brand
2. (1) 10" long piece of 2x4
3. (2) 24" pry bar
Pressurize the cylinder. Put the 2 springs together, weave the zip tie in one side, down the center, and back out the same side. Start one coil down from the top and finish one coil up from the bottom. Put the springs in a bench vice and compress (but not till they bind) and then cinch the zip tie nice and tight. Yes, the spring assembly will be a little ****-eyed because of the zip tie being on one side only, but that's why you have the pry bar. Put the springs in place. Place the 2x4 in a heavy duty ziplock bag to prevent any debris getting in the engine. Then put it in between the frame and the valve stem and use the pry bar to even out the high side of the springs. The first keeper will drop right in (I use a magnetic retriever) and second will require a bit of maneuvering with the pry bar. Took about 20 minutes - my first time.
I am seeing more and more ways that zip ties can be used for repairs and they are fantastic for keeping any kind of spring at bay.
You can see that the old valve stem seal got pretty pulverized by the inner spring. I'm going to do an oil change tomorrow afternoon and cut open the oil filter for kicks.
The only mistake I made was somehow screwing up the push rod tubes and the middle collar ended up at the underside of the head and thus the oring did not seal so we had a bit of a leak, but that is now quickly resolved.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 134
Likes: 2
From: Ontario, Canada
All I have to do now is get these push rod tubes to seal up better as they are puking a bit of oil. This bike never dripped and now I have an oily chunk of cardboard under it and bring a rag along to clean as I go! Must have hard orings that don't want to seal up anymore.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 134
Likes: 2
From: Ontario, Canada
So much for my engine....
Here's what we think may have happened. My bro and I were trying to make sense of it and he offered some great thoughts:
I'd bet the time driving with a busted spring (which may have been some time / previous owners) led to a couple valve floats. If the spring pressure was way below spec due to the inner spring loss, it's possible maybe 4-5K rpm may have produced uncontrolled valve motion, and that's what damages valves, may have even tagged the piston top lightly a time or two. You really didn't have a chance on this one if you bought the bike like that, valve may have already been compromised before you even bought it.
Then I added the new spring and the valve may have been too weak to handle the extra pressure.
Mechanic seems to think lifters may have been partially to blame if they were over compensating (pumping up too much) for valve float.
Anyhow.....the good news is the motor was literally only running for seconds as I pulled off to the side of the road. So I'm hoping things aren't too thrashed down below.
No comes the big teardown and rebuild. I can only imagine that's the start of a new thread as building a more powerful and reliable engine will be in the works....more new territory.
I'd bet the time driving with a busted spring (which may have been some time / previous owners) led to a couple valve floats. If the spring pressure was way below spec due to the inner spring loss, it's possible maybe 4-5K rpm may have produced uncontrolled valve motion, and that's what damages valves, may have even tagged the piston top lightly a time or two. You really didn't have a chance on this one if you bought the bike like that, valve may have already been compromised before you even bought it.
Then I added the new spring and the valve may have been too weak to handle the extra pressure.
Mechanic seems to think lifters may have been partially to blame if they were over compensating (pumping up too much) for valve float.
Anyhow.....the good news is the motor was literally only running for seconds as I pulled off to the side of the road. So I'm hoping things aren't too thrashed down below.
No comes the big teardown and rebuild. I can only imagine that's the start of a new thread as building a more powerful and reliable engine will be in the works....more new territory.
Dirt don't hurt
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21,065
Likes: 4,561
From: Haslet Texas
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 134
Likes: 2
From: Ontario, Canada
It's amazing what can happen in 5-10 seconds after dropping a valve.
Hopefully this week I can come to terms with my current predicament and decide on a game plan even it it means just parking it for the longer term.
I am already getting some advice to just walk away from the engine rather than attempting a rebuild. All the time, effort, cash to put it all back together and could easily be a flaw of some kind.
I'm still taking some risk on if I buy a used engine, or a rebuilt engine from somebody.
The bike is pretty, but I don't think I'm committed enough to necessarily put thousands in to repowering with an S&S.
I'm going to find out what kind of insurance refund I can expect if I just yank it off the road now and deal with the whole issue of what to do over the winter.
Hopefully this week I can come to terms with my current predicament and decide on a game plan even it it means just parking it for the longer term.
I am already getting some advice to just walk away from the engine rather than attempting a rebuild. All the time, effort, cash to put it all back together and could easily be a flaw of some kind.
I'm still taking some risk on if I buy a used engine, or a rebuilt engine from somebody.
The bike is pretty, but I don't think I'm committed enough to necessarily put thousands in to repowering with an S&S.
I'm going to find out what kind of insurance refund I can expect if I just yank it off the road now and deal with the whole issue of what to do over the winter.
Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,084
Likes: 829
Seen that same scenario bend the wrist pin end of the rod......more than once.
We have some good Evo take-off heads here.
Scott
We have some good Evo take-off heads here.
Scott
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 13,488
Likes: 34,573
From: Pine Flat Dam/South Bay Area, CA
There is going to be bits on metal everywhere in the engine. I dropped a valve in an Ironhead Sportster & there were pieces of piston in the air cleaner, carb, & even mashed into the cam gears. I ended up putting S&S wheels & rods in the engine & built it into a little stroker. That was over 25 years ago & it's still running.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,091
Likes: 7,611
From: Poolville
It's gotta come apart. And in all honesty there's a good chance that the crank and the cases are good. If your not to familiar with splitting cases the you should send them to Scott. I'm thinking a set of rods along with a top end rebuild and a set of his bench heads will probably get you in the neighborhood. It's a lot of work but you can count on him.....
Sorry all this happened to you.... Good luck man....
Sorry all this happened to you.... Good luck man....