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Guys, here's where I'm at. Couldn't get to the bike until this morning.
1) Check ignition timing rotor cup and it was all good and tight. Timing is still tight.
2) Turn motor with starter with spark plugs out and PRs out---It spins and nothing out of the normal. Oil filling all lifters.
3) Put PRs back in and turn motor with starter---It spins and nothing out of the normal
4) Conducted a cold compression test with wide throttle open-- 120psi rear, 115psi front
At this point, I'm tempted to put in the spark plugs and start her again, but don't want to cause any further damage. What I am suspecting is bottom end damage due to debris from failed lifter and lifter block. When I turn the engine with socket on compensator nut, there is one REALLY tight spot to overcome. It is really tight compared to other times that I have turned the motor by hand.
So, what's next? Start her up and possibly risk another lock and stop or just pull the top end and inspect bottom end? Thanks.
NO, I wouldn't start it. The "hard spot" won't get any better. Did you happen to notice/check/look where the pistons were at the hard place? Up, down, middle?
One thing to consider about turning the engine - the front intake and rear exhaust valves open at the same time and when turning the engine, especially with the rear wheel there is a hard spot in rotation at that point. The bigger cam, the harder it is. EV13 isn't radical but still a far cry from stock. But I'm sure you've turned it enough times to get a feel for all that, just thought it worth mentioning....
Probably time to go with your initial plan and start a tear down. Compression looks like it could use a freshen-up. Not that bad, but since it's coming apart anyway...
I'd go at the top end first, in hopes it's a piston/cylinder issue and do a wiggle on the rods with the jugs off. You can feel for a tight spot on the flywheel again at that point by turning it with the rods. Go from there. Even worst case scenario - it's much easier to set the engine out with the heads and jugs off.
I'm still keeping fingers crossed it's a piston problem. Could even be carbon buildup. But if it's that bad, the heads need to come off to ever clean that much build up.
Also, with the jugs off and if the rods feel OK, take a medical gauze pad, about 2x2 and with a single strand wire or mechanics finger (pickup tool) swab the bottom of the case between the wheels and see if you find any contamination before committing to splitting cases.
PS. I can see how a broken valve spring "could" foul it and make for a tight spot in rotation, but you'll know about that with only the valve covers off or turning it again by hand with the PRs out. Good luck Daven.
Last edited by t150vej; Oct 23, 2020 at 11:27 AM.
Reason: ps
Take your primary chain off and then put the compensator nut back in the crank and spin it over by hand and see if there's any difference in that tight spot...
t150vej- I believe that the pistons were in middle for both, but will re-check. You're right, I've turned the engine over by rear wheel in 5th gear enough to know tight spot, and "stuck" tight spot. I got the bike 10 inch up on ATV lift and rotating the rear tire by laying on the ground and pushing with my leg, so that's a lot of pressure. The "stuck" tight spot was there also when using socket to turn compensator nut to rotate the engine. It felt like a hard mechanical lock!
98hotrod- I will take the primary chain off and turn over the motor with compensator nut. We'll see if that "stuck" tight spot is still there, and also gives me an opportunity to see where the piston travel is.
Again, thanks for the timely suggestions. Venturing into new territory for me.
t150vej- I believe that the pistons were in middle for both, but will re-check. You're right, I've turned the engine over by rear wheel in 5th gear enough to know tight spot, and "stuck" tight spot. I got the bike 10 inch up on ATV lift and rotating the rear tire by laying on the ground and pushing with my leg, so that's a lot of pressure. The "stuck" tight spot was there also when using socket to turn compensator nut to rotate the engine. It felt like a hard mechanical lock!
98hotrod- I will take the primary chain off and turn over the motor with compensator nut. We'll see if that "stuck" tight spot is still there, and also gives me an opportunity to see where the piston travel is.
Again, thanks for the timely suggestions. Venturing into new territory for me.
Yeah, I figured you knew about all that... It's the "shut off while running" that may have had me overthinking all this. With it being a hard mechanical lock feel, good advice from hotrod and griz to look for exactly that, in the cam chest and eliminate the primary (chain) from the equation.
You can take the compensator nut off, remove the spring washer and drive cam. Then put a small socket (spacer) in the nut and thread it back on. That way you can turn the engine (backwards) without pulling everything in there. Save you some time.
Take the PRs back out and eliminate the valve springs while turning. If the hard lock is still there, get the cam cover off. I've never had one, but could be a cracked pinion gear. May be hard or next to impossible to see without pulling it off the shaft though. At any rate, eliminate the valve train, primary stuff and cam, if the hard lock is still there, then may be a (deep) bearing.
I've just never had a pinion, rod or main bearing make a hard lock like that until it had already come apart and trashed a lot of stuff. But then, I've sure NOT seen it all. !!
If you find excessive silver dust or more chunks in the cam chest oil, especially after recently being cleaned, would tell you a lot too.
T150vej, "If you find excessive silver dustor more chunks in the cam chest oil, especially after recently being cleaned, would tell you a lot too."
Gentlemen, I found liquid sand paper in the bottom of my cam case. The cam area was spotless when put back together last, with fresh oil. So, bottom end bearings failed? The engine tear down begins. Any other advice? Rolling up my sleeves for more education. You guys have been very helpful.
Last edited by daven9113; Oct 23, 2020 at 04:16 PM.
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