starter problems
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 72
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From: Texas
starter problems
hello to all,
I have 1984 custom w/ 80" evo engine w/ 4 speed rotarytop transmission
my problem is that i've been through 3 hitachi starters this year it grinds the **** out of the gear teeth on starter . Also battery is fully charged, sometimes the starter sounds like itcant turn the engine over like if the batterys dead but its not. do i need compression release or is their something else i can do.[sm=biker.gif]
I have 1984 custom w/ 80" evo engine w/ 4 speed rotarytop transmission
my problem is that i've been through 3 hitachi starters this year it grinds the **** out of the gear teeth on starter . Also battery is fully charged, sometimes the starter sounds like itcant turn the engine over like if the batterys dead but its not. do i need compression release or is their something else i can do.[sm=biker.gif]
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 64
From: SoCal
RE: starter problems
juaniosa,
Do you know what model bike the starter setup came from? There are two possibilities for the 1984 models so it might help me if you are as specific as possible.
Are you saying the gear(s) in the starter motor reduction gear housing are getting chewed up or are you talking about the ring and pinion gears in the primary case? I ask because I am trying to figure out why you have had to replace the Hitachi starter motor.
I am using a Hitachi starter to start a 10:1 S&S 96" Evo without compression releases and it has to work at it but it starts every time. I tried a super-wizz-bang Spyke high torque starter and it didn't crank the engine any faster than the stock Hitachi motor and the Hitachi is a heavier-duty looking unit so I went back to it. I am thinking that you can get yours to do the job.
Do you know what model bike the starter setup came from? There are two possibilities for the 1984 models so it might help me if you are as specific as possible.
Are you saying the gear(s) in the starter motor reduction gear housing are getting chewed up or are you talking about the ring and pinion gears in the primary case? I ask because I am trying to figure out why you have had to replace the Hitachi starter motor.
I am using a Hitachi starter to start a 10:1 S&S 96" Evo without compression releases and it has to work at it but it starts every time. I tried a super-wizz-bang Spyke high torque starter and it didn't crank the engine any faster than the stock Hitachi motor and the Hitachi is a heavier-duty looking unit so I went back to it. I am thinking that you can get yours to do the job.
Stage IV
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From:
RE: starter problems
When my 1984 Softail was new, I had to use the kicker and the electric starter simultaneously in order to get the engine to turn over. (I could barely kick it over without the electric, but I couldn't use the electric only to get the motor to rotate)
After replacing the starter motor several times as well as countless starter buttons and relays, I pulled that electric start nonsense off and went with an open belt primary and kicker only.
After replacing the starter motor several times as well as countless starter buttons and relays, I pulled that electric start nonsense off and went with an open belt primary and kicker only.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 20
From: Eagle River WI
RE: starter problems
Is the inner primary a stock Harley one ? You are probably eating the ring gear attached to the clutch housing not the starter gear What ign system are you running? Electronic stock Harley for that year?
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 64
From: SoCal
RE: starter problems
juaniosa,
Yeah, install the best wires you can afford all the way from the battery to the starter motor (and the battery ground wire as well). They do make a difference. Another thing I heard about and subsequently did to my bike was run an extra ground wire from the battery negative terminal (or the battery ground lug on the frame) to the one of the bolts for the reduction gear housing to ensure a good ground for the starter motor.
So the gears in the reduction gear housing are getting chewed up. You may need to replace both the big gear in there and the one on the starter motor shaft at this point. Are they coated with a nice, sticky wheel bearing grease on the teeth? They gotta have lube. The only other things that come to mind regarding gear damage is misalignment, mismatched or defective gears.
Good luck!
Yeah, install the best wires you can afford all the way from the battery to the starter motor (and the battery ground wire as well). They do make a difference. Another thing I heard about and subsequently did to my bike was run an extra ground wire from the battery negative terminal (or the battery ground lug on the frame) to the one of the bolts for the reduction gear housing to ensure a good ground for the starter motor.
So the gears in the reduction gear housing are getting chewed up. You may need to replace both the big gear in there and the one on the starter motor shaft at this point. Are they coated with a nice, sticky wheel bearing grease on the teeth? They gotta have lube. The only other things that come to mind regarding gear damage is misalignment, mismatched or defective gears.
Good luck!
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,195
Likes: 3,085
From: NW AR
RE: starter problems
Yeah, given the symptoms of hard to start, fried starterand repeated gear tooth damage, I think a common cause would be some type of misalignment. Is this an aftermarket inner primary? There were several different inner primaries over the years you mention. 1979 being the worst withtransmission shaft bearing failures because they screwed up the design of the casting, but that's a different biatch. The Hitachi starters are quite reliable by themselves, so, I'd look for a cause of something destroying them. And if the gear is being chewed up, it is very likely that whatever the gear engages is also chewed up now. That would be the ring gear on the clutch basket, right? Time to replace that.
Another thing to consider is the solenoid. The solenoid on my 86 FLHT was starting to act up: Not making contact sometimes, especially when hot. That is, click, but no whirr. I bought an Accel chrome, high dollar solenoid from J&P at Sturgis. I put it in and the motor was making horrible noises and not cranking the motor very fast. I checked the circuit with my meter and the switch part of the solenoid was crap. I was losing like 4-5 volts across the thing. Junk. I pulled the original one out of the trash and rebuilt it. To check for that, hook the negative lead of your volt meter to ground, the positive to the output of the solenoid, crank. While cranking, you should have about the same voltage as on the input side of the solenoid, which should be about the same as the positive battery terminal (all while cranking).
You say this is a custom bike, so you have custom problems, including dealing with aftermarket crap and/or a DPO.
Another thing to consider is the solenoid. The solenoid on my 86 FLHT was starting to act up: Not making contact sometimes, especially when hot. That is, click, but no whirr. I bought an Accel chrome, high dollar solenoid from J&P at Sturgis. I put it in and the motor was making horrible noises and not cranking the motor very fast. I checked the circuit with my meter and the switch part of the solenoid was crap. I was losing like 4-5 volts across the thing. Junk. I pulled the original one out of the trash and rebuilt it. To check for that, hook the negative lead of your volt meter to ground, the positive to the output of the solenoid, crank. While cranking, you should have about the same voltage as on the input side of the solenoid, which should be about the same as the positive battery terminal (all while cranking).
You say this is a custom bike, so you have custom problems, including dealing with aftermarket crap and/or a DPO.
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Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Likes: 2
RE: starter problems
With over 90k miles on it, I finally changed outthe OEM Hitachi on my '85 FXEF. The teeth on the starter gear were worn to a knife edge....a SHARP knife-edge. I've had difficulties with startingmy bike, but part of it has been dirty wire contacts and the fact that the cam has some high static pressures, so it takes a bit of juice to turn the engine over. Just cleaning the wire contacts made a world of difference in starting, though.