I fixed it and it was the selenoid-I think. The thing is i rebuilt the seloenoid a year ago and my father having built the bike said that starter has been suspect from the get go. the other day I got in there and cleaned connections and bent one of the contacts inside back so it was flush with the other contact when the brass plate on the plunger made contact...hope that makes sense. Well it doesn't have to make sense because the fis lasted a day. So, but at least i knew it had to be something in the selenoid because the starter turns over great. After taking the&nbsp\\;plate cover off i noticed the p[lunger just did want to go in to make its contact. If i manually pushed the celenoid in the&nbsp\\;starter would start the engine.&nbsp\\;I took the plunger out and noticed the spring was broke so i took the small part of the spring out and replaced the celenoid. PRESTO!! the&nbsp\\;celenoid and starter are working fine.&nbsp\\;Not knowing jack and being a complete idiot I would just have to say that apparently some magnetic pull that runs up that spring was fixed when i threw out the&nbsp\\;broken piece of spring. I have no idea how the plunger is drawn in but apparently it has something to do with that spring and electricity. Whatever-i think the thing is fixed.
I would also like to say that I didn't understand lingo like&nbsp\\;"LAP" the plunger. And check my "Earths". What the....? Also why and how would i flip the brass plate on the plunger. Do some models allow this?&nbsp\\;Also, I thik all batteries are different but the Harley Gel, wich is what I call it, are the best. Dependiing on where you&nbsp\\;live and how you use it and what kind of bike you use it in and ..........you see there are alot of factors involved but i have a friend with a softail standard,&nbsp\\;that had one of those&nbsp\\;Gel harley Batteries last 6 years. OK comments welcome.... Thanks for all the help!!!&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\;

 

Well, I did mention all the ones I'd been into - which is old antique stuff like trucks and whatnot. I wasn't clear on that part and honestly didn't know what I was talking about in relation to yours (after I got out the parts book) BUT, if it was enough to bluff you into gettin in there and learning and fixing it yourself, then I won't feel so bad!
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Earth is primarily a British term which in American english means "ground."
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There is an electric coil in the solenoid that creates a strong magnetic pull when voltage is applied. That pulls the plunger&nbsp\\;which is connected to a fork in the primary which engages the starter gear (bendix) and at the same time causes the contacts in the solenoid&nbsp\\;to make contact, sending voltage to the starter motor. The spring is to push the plunger back into the neutral postion when you let off the starter button.
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Sorry about the mis-information, but happy to hear you got it all tidy!
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Ride Safe

 

actually i didn't the thing is pulling the same **** today. It just doesn't have the "pull" to get the plunger in. If i push it with the cover off the celenoid then it works fine r if i put a wrench on the bolt on the top of the celenoid then it somehow magically engages. bu for the most part i thnk the celenoid is going away and that is odd because i rebuilt it only a year ago.
Dave

 

I don't know where it is on that particular bike, but there is a RELAY somewhere. If you can short accross the solenoid wires and it works, that relay would be the next place to go. The starter button sends juice or ground to the relay and THAT'S what sends voltage to the solenoid.
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It's about 1 inch square and you can get one at any parts store, even Advance or Auto Zone.
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You'll know you found it when you unplug the wires and the starter button does nothing. Take it with you because there is a wiring diagram actually on it and match that up at the store. One for a Ford or most any starter will probably right... but look at the picture on both relays close.
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Good luck and keep us posted

 

Man that sounds interesting i will definatly look into that. After reading everything again i checked the wire mesh ground under the bike. It goes from the primary to the frame. While it is intact it is seriously worn. I smashed everything together and the bike started right up-but for how long? If that mesh ground is cheap and readily available it looks like it would be easily changed out. The way the starter acts intermittantly it is fathomable that this ground could be it. I guess my quesion is, is that ground that important to the magnetic pull of the selenoid? I will also look for the RELAY you speak of but another question arises, actually connecting the two selenoid wires proved that the starter works-so now i am sure that it s this magnetic pull isn't strong enough to "pull" the plunger so the next questions are does the mesh ground and or the RELAY you speak of have more of an affect on this magnetic pull?
Thanks for your help t150vej!

 

A ground is just as important as the hot wire. All the positive juice in the world will do nothing without just as heavy a ground. Example: british bikes are (or were) always positive ground. Which means the + actually hooks to the frame, therefore the negative is what actually runs through the wiring harness on them.
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When you say crossing the posts with a wrench, I'm assuming you mean the big one and the little one (which actually is what the relay does when you push the button) that it engages and turns over good? If so, relay is&nbsp\\;definitely suspect.&nbsp\\;
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And yes, regardless of what you do, if the ground strap is beat-up, replace it and clean boths ends where it bolts to the frame/engine&nbsp\\;with sandpaper where it bolts to the frame. The ground has more to do with the actual PULL&nbsp\\;of the solenoid plunger than the relay does.
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That flat braided strap type wire is very inexpensive, if you can find it.&nbsp\\;Used to buy it anywhere, but I think Radio Shack is the only place here to get&nbsp\\;it anymore. They use it cause it's cheap, very flexible and is better than stranded wire for carrying a larger load. You can use regular battery cable to replace them if you can find short lengths with ends on it. If you find the braid type, it will probably NOT have ends and will come in lengths or even a roll. You don't need ends - just use a phillips scredriver and wiggle enough of a hole through it about 3/4 inch from the end you want to bolt up. I recommend new bolts and washers. Put a washer on both sides of the braid and bolt it up.
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And, you might even check with your HD dealer. Braid cable is cheap and sometimes factory parts are very reasonable and easier to buy than trying to make something work. (I would go somewhere else for a relay though)
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Again all models are different, but mine is an FLT. It has 2 ground straps. One un-hooked and I have everything - except starter. The other, I have starter only and no ignition or lights. So look for more than one strap on your bike,&nbsp\\;just in case.
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I truly believe, from all I've read, that your problem is relatively simply (ground or relay) and that the expensive part (starter motor) is probably good.
&nbsp\\;
I'ts always the simple things that will drive you nuts! Any wrench will tell you that!

 

I think it is simple to. i will look for another braided ground strap and then go after relay if that is not the case. Maybe i wasn't clear what i did was connect the two posts on the selenoid with a jump wireand the starter spun with vigor (however, the selenoid did not engage, the starter only spun). to me that says that the starter is fine it is the selenoid that is not working properly if you say this ground strap could be the culprit then i will look into it. Also if you are saying&nbsp\\;a faulty relay could also be the culprit affecting the selenoid then i will look into that also. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.
David&nbsp\\;

 

Ok, Just for reference&nbsp\\;-
&nbsp\\;
the little wire on the solenoid comes&nbsp\\;FROM the relay. One big wire goes TO the starter motor, and the other big wire comes FROM the battery and is always hot. Jumping the little post to the battery or big post that is always hot, is what the relay actually does. (so jumping the little post to the "always hot" or battery post, it should turn over. If not, hopefully a ground cable is at fault)
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You're quite welcome. I hope everyone posting has been of some help to you. Hang in there..........