I know what ya mean Greg! I am still in love with my bike. I would like to have a new or newer touring bike, but I sure can't see spending that kind of money right now. I can't even imagine what it would be like to try to work on them new ones. Too advanced for me. And I sure can't see me paying some one else to work on it. So it would have to be a new one or one with warranty on it.

Again!!!!!!!!!!! I still love my EVO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Funny thing is, I'm all about new technology in cars and trucks.... I would even welcome new technology in a HD.. But, $20k for two wheels just does not compute.....I wont even pay that for 4 wheels!! So, I'm with you, I'll be keeping my EVO and even buying an EVO FLH at some point...

 

Hell, my bike is a new bike. I bought it new, that makes it new to me. You want old? Shovelhead or pan I consider "old." Twinkies I consider "new fangled."

 

Evo had just about ran its course. I still have one , It has no were near the power my TC has but I still enjoy it.
The one thing that will stop a return to the EVO in any form will be the EPA.
2012 I hope HD do not start looking like GW car engine sideways wrapped in plastic

 

Can't see THAT happening! They already tried that in developing the twinkie engine... one of the delays in getting the twinkie engine out initially was the tremendous oil heating problem - it set the twinkie back nearly two full years! The heads were designed to get a lot more oil to them than the Evo heads did - ostensibly to cool them better - but the strategy backfired, and it actually RAISED the whole engine temperature greatly, because the very hot heads were heating the oil and making the whole engine run much hotter! They had to cut the oil to the heads to 1/6 of the original amount to finally solve the high heat problem. And then they still had to put oil jets in to spray the bottoms of the pistons to help cool THEM down, too. Twinkies STILL run MUCH hotter than Evos do... one of the sponsors of HDF is "No More Fried Thighs"... but Evos simply don't HAVE high heat issues.

Oil is simply not a very efficient cooling mechanism due to its relatively high viscosity - the problem is once it gets hot, it's quite difficult to cool it back down very rapidly because it tends to hold that heat very well. Water is much more efficient as a cooling medium because it's not nearly as viscous as oil, and it gives up heat much more readily than oil does. It also is 3600 TIMES more dense than air, and water can thus absorb 3600 times the amount of heat for a given volume than air can at normal atmospheric pressure. That's why a lot of big displacement Asian bikes - both inline and V-Twin - are "liquid cooled" and have been since the 80s... because it simply works quite well!

Back when we had water-cooled mainframe computers at IBM and customers complained about the expensive water chillers needed to cool the water, we used to say "OK, if you were on fire, what would you rather that I do... throw water on you, or BLOW on you?" I'd prefer the water, thank you!

A water-cooled Harley big twin engine would be much more likely to appear than would an oil-cooled engine... but they'll put that off as long as they can as well - so as not to offend the Harley "faithful". Actually, I think that most Harley buyers these days wouldn't even NOTICE a well-designed radiator up front, because most are RUBs who don't know the first thing about the mechanical characteristics of their bikes. They MoCo might try to bring out an oil-cooled engine, but I would be very doubtful that oil would actually work very well as a cooling medium at all. The thermodynamics just aren't right. If oil-cooling worked well, every automobile and truck out there would be using oil instead of water for cooling... and how many oil-cooled car and truck engines do you see out there? Umm... NONE!

And about the viability of very large displacement single-cam "Evo-style" engines... S&S, RavTech, Ultima, and others have figured out how to make massive, single-cam, air-cooled engines displacing over 150 cubic inches, producing over 150 horsepower and massive amounts of torque, and complying with all EPA regs... so it CAN be done!

The MoCo came out with the twinkie engine primarily to protect their business and shut out other manufacturers - not for more power nor meeting EPA regs... those were merely secondary objectives. They had intentionally kept the Evo market wide open to encourage the development of the aftermarket to help grow the Harley business back when they really needed the help after the disastrous AMF era, when H-D management bought the company back from AMF in '82. But by the mid-90s, the Evo aftermarket was killing them, so they developed the Twin Cam engine and kept it all to themselves via patents and closed specs. How's that for "progress"?

The Evo is a simpler and more efficient engine than the twinkie. It produces less heat, it can be rebuilt or enhanced relatively cheaply, it is very forgiving in tolerances, and it is basically bulletproof - especially in the mid to late 90s versions that were the beneficiaries of well more than a decade of continuing enhancements and refinements. And, you can STILL buy a BRAND NEW stock Evo engine directly from the MoCo, with a full warranty, for about $4000 - that will probably last longer than you will!

The Evo is Dead... Long Live the Evo!

 

[QUOTE]
2015 will be a water cooled, overhead 4 cammed, turbo charged diesel with the urea and reburn cat system to meet federal emissions. 120 lbs torque, 105 hp and 60 mpg plus good for 300,000 miles. A twin turbo'd 3 cylinder "L" version will be available for the Ultra's tipping the scale @ 150 lbs torque.

Harley will partner with Navistar in developing this emission meeting torque monster due to pressure from stock holders wanting to attract a different customer base after the baby boomer generation has faded.

Ok Schwangster, do you fold or are you all in on what can go through my head?

 

[QUOTE=1997bagger;7145736]Don't know about Dale... BUT I FOLD! I sure as HELL ain't calling THAT nightmare! They should probably start building SCOOTERS soon...

Speaking of dreams... we saw Inception tonight... ABSOLUTELY AWESOME MOVIE!

 

Ya NGH, I do agree with you on the water cooled design coming, Harley will need to create more cylinder heat and compression to meet emissions and the end of the air cooled. Todays gas and diesel engines run higher coolant temperature to be more efficient and Harley will soon have to follow or bye-bye, Caterpillar has already met that emissions fate with their truck engines as they didn't want to pursue the costs of enginering a 2010 epa compliant engine

 

[QUOTE=1997bagger;7145736]Well. my brother bought a Delicata van (jap spec) with a very efficent and fairly powerful small 3 cylinder diesel. It's 4 WD, and camperized, can keep up to traffic, and gets awesome fuel mileage.
So you are NOT hearing crazy things in your head at all. Diesel is viable, especially turboed. Maybe even running on peanut oil!

But Ken and his voices...now that's another matter. I think he's been sippin the single malt again!

Went to the dealer and looked at the new bikes today. They are nice!
Lots of WGs, in flames.
Merlot RG Ultra...nice!
But I too love my Evo, and can't see getting rid of it any time soon.
As I have stated before, it's like having a 68 Camaro. The new ones are nice, would love to have one, but there are not that many 68 Camaros left. (no, I don't have a 68 Camaro. Yet)

OK, time for me to join Ken in sippin the single malt!

 

[QUOTE=schwangster;7145849]Dude - EVERYTHING I said was absolutely true! What part do you think wasn't?