Burning oil!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,340
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From: Winterwonderland
Done a few car engines, a long time ago. Never heard of that. Never done a bike. Wondering if you go back & do it properly if that will get it right.Also wondering about my theory of if oil shows on the stick your good. Someone please correct me on that one if that is not the case.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 206
Likes: 5
I don't want to even pretend to be an expert here, but I want to say a few things. First, stop even thinking about the level of oil you have, it is fine. Stop thinking about the type of oil you have, it is fine. You HAVE to have a Harley manual for your bike. If you do, go to the troubleshooting section and do a good compression test with enrichener and throttle wide open. Squirt some oil in there just like they say for a follow up test. Do a leakdown and listen to the sounds coming out of exhaust, carb, etc.. Then, go back to whomever did the work. Ask them what grit they honed with for the finish, find out if they used the cover SEALS on the stem of the valves when they installed the valve seals. MANY people don't even know what these are... they look like small, rubber condoms for a gerbil. Anyway, if they did not use these, then your valve seals were likely damaged on installation. Remove your exhaust pipes and look inside the exhaust at the tops of the valves, or at least the inlet to the pipes. Do the same with your intakes.
I think it may be the valve seals. This is easy to check.
If not, suspect rings, or more exactly, a poor match between rings and cylinder bore. Second compression ring has a dot that MUST be installed facing up. Anyway, if it is in the cylinder, start over. You probably have good cylinders, so bore over 0.0010... WITH torque plates AND gaskets installed for the boring out. Get the proper rings. BTW, the ring gap in overbored cylinders becomes and "unknown".
Good luck, and unlike some, PLEASE post to us what you finally determine, as it will help us. I just got back from a trip to the Cooley mountains. Wow, I LOVE Irish pubs. I wish I were there right now. We could figure this out, and it would be fun.
I think it may be the valve seals. This is easy to check.
If not, suspect rings, or more exactly, a poor match between rings and cylinder bore. Second compression ring has a dot that MUST be installed facing up. Anyway, if it is in the cylinder, start over. You probably have good cylinders, so bore over 0.0010... WITH torque plates AND gaskets installed for the boring out. Get the proper rings. BTW, the ring gap in overbored cylinders becomes and "unknown".
Good luck, and unlike some, PLEASE post to us what you finally determine, as it will help us. I just got back from a trip to the Cooley mountains. Wow, I LOVE Irish pubs. I wish I were there right now. We could figure this out, and it would be fun.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 5
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Thanks Miacycles, good ideas will try them.
And also thanks Jethro, am leaning towards valve stem oil seal myself. Will keep you informed, but unfortunately (or fortunately) weather good here and hate being off the road, also, I kinda have a long finger that things get put onto......................but will do compression test and check valve stems as suggested at week end.
I am also a bit of an oldie, 60ish, and not overjoyed at the thought of crawling around on the ground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers.
Tony.
And also thanks Jethro, am leaning towards valve stem oil seal myself. Will keep you informed, but unfortunately (or fortunately) weather good here and hate being off the road, also, I kinda have a long finger that things get put onto......................but will do compression test and check valve stems as suggested at week end.
I am also a bit of an oldie, 60ish, and not overjoyed at the thought of crawling around on the ground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers.
Tony.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 5
From: Dublin, Ireland.
By the way Jethro, glad you enjoyed your trip to Co.Louth, I live in Sounth County Dublin, so no too far. As for the pubs, yeah you can get quiet fond of them, going out tonight so will have a pint for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, compression tester shot, so decided to ignore it and just pull engine down. Time off today so got stuck in and had all torn down in 3 hours, I reckon not bad.
Anyhow. No sign of any wear in bores, in fact can still see the cross hatch of the de-glaze, no bad scores and, most important, I did not screw up as middle rings right way up.............
Have to say that heads and piston tops very black, but suppose it is expected if burning oil and base of exhaust valve guides in exhaust ports a bit "tarry" looking.
Have heads upside down and full of white spirit just to see if valves leak on the seats, will leave overnight.
Do not know about valve stem seals yet, will take them off tomorrow and have a look.
So that is position at moment, waiting on gasket set, probably James, would anyone recommend different valve seals?
Will keep posted.
TC
Now, compression tester shot, so decided to ignore it and just pull engine down. Time off today so got stuck in and had all torn down in 3 hours, I reckon not bad.
Anyhow. No sign of any wear in bores, in fact can still see the cross hatch of the de-glaze, no bad scores and, most important, I did not screw up as middle rings right way up.............
Have to say that heads and piston tops very black, but suppose it is expected if burning oil and base of exhaust valve guides in exhaust ports a bit "tarry" looking.
Have heads upside down and full of white spirit just to see if valves leak on the seats, will leave overnight.
Do not know about valve stem seals yet, will take them off tomorrow and have a look.
So that is position at moment, waiting on gasket set, probably James, would anyone recommend different valve seals?
Will keep posted.
TC
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
When you put the valves back in, two things. First take a sharpening stone and go around and put a small radius on the tip of the stem and make sure you have no burrs as they can nick the seals and cause trouble. Secondly as perviously mentioned make sure that you use the little calephane protector on the valve stem and lube the seal and stem to make sure that it doesn't run dry and overheat the seal. Oh and use the plastic tool to install the seals. Hope this helps.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 5
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Cheers Mia. Appreciate the input.
Unfortunately I do not have the plastic tool to install the seals, unless it comes in the kit. So it will be a socket with a gentle tap..............
Do you reckon the seals with the James gasket set are ok? Someone suggested Viton seal, would these be better?
Also, been out a few hours now, (pub), and the white spirit in heads has not gone down, so assume the valves themselves are not leaking.
Cheers,
TC
Unfortunately I do not have the plastic tool to install the seals, unless it comes in the kit. So it will be a socket with a gentle tap..............
Do you reckon the seals with the James gasket set are ok? Someone suggested Viton seal, would these be better?
Also, been out a few hours now, (pub), and the white spirit in heads has not gone down, so assume the valves themselves are not leaking.
Cheers,
TC
Last edited by tc; Feb 17, 2012 at 07:29 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 66,948
Likes: 4,573
From: TOAK western branch
You are correct but I think he used a bottle brush glaze breaker. If so no torque plate needed.
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Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 5
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Ok. Now as I said I turned heads up side down and filled with white spirit and left for nearly a full day.
Now, should there be NO fluid in the intake/exhaust ports or is some acceptable?
There has been some seepage into each of the ports, so is this my problem, valves not seating right under compression?
You can see in pics that rear is far worse than front. The exhaust ports would have less in them, except for the front which is more or less the same for inlet and exhaust.
Tony.
Now, should there be NO fluid in the intake/exhaust ports or is some acceptable?
There has been some seepage into each of the ports, so is this my problem, valves not seating right under compression?
You can see in pics that rear is far worse than front. The exhaust ports would have less in them, except for the front which is more or less the same for inlet and exhaust.
Tony.
