1996 Ultra help needed
I have a buddy who has a 96 Ultra and wouldn't part with it if his life depended on it.
We just came back from a southwest trip and he pushed that old dog (sometimes 60 + miles at 85 mph) and it held up. He has around 70Kon the odometer, and he has a couple of issues.
It is hard to start (MM fuelie) for it loads up quick, and he holds the throttle wide open until she fires and then the black smoke rolls and she is running and stays running.
It idles quite high and takes forever to warm up until she does finally idle down.
We can do a few passive sensor checks, but I am wondering if there is a scanner that allows the ECM to be read. I have had newer bikes so used a SEPST, and now a PV, and am unsure what works on his.I gave him my SEPST to try and he got flustered, came back, and said "piece a **** doesn't work".
I fear he will have it blown up or something by the time he gets around to dealing with it, for suspect the richness on start up is washing the cylinders down pretty badly.
I figured I would check with you guys and see how many have dealt with the older but goody?
Thanks gents.....
We just came back from a southwest trip and he pushed that old dog (sometimes 60 + miles at 85 mph) and it held up. He has around 70Kon the odometer, and he has a couple of issues.
It is hard to start (MM fuelie) for it loads up quick, and he holds the throttle wide open until she fires and then the black smoke rolls and she is running and stays running.
It idles quite high and takes forever to warm up until she does finally idle down.
We can do a few passive sensor checks, but I am wondering if there is a scanner that allows the ECM to be read. I have had newer bikes so used a SEPST, and now a PV, and am unsure what works on his.I gave him my SEPST to try and he got flustered, came back, and said "piece a **** doesn't work".
I fear he will have it blown up or something by the time he gets around to dealing with it, for suspect the richness on start up is washing the cylinders down pretty badly.
I figured I would check with you guys and see how many have dealt with the older but goody?
Thanks gents.....
I found this on another site. Hope it helps. These THREE options/possibilities I found few years ago on this and on another one forum. Option number one helped me:
1. Pro Fueler (Dobeckperformancecycles)
When tuning our product on Harley Davidson’s, there is a possibility of coming
across mechanical and/or sensor issues that may have preceded the installation of our product and that may confuse the tuning procedures. If our base settings seem way off, or if following our basic adjustment sequence (#4) does not produce the desired results of smoother running as we suggest, then you may want to have your mechanic look into the following:
1995-2001 Touring models
1. In all of the recommended suggestions and settings given below, it is
imperative that you are working on a FULLY warmed up engine. That means driving the bike for a good 15 minutes and then idling it for another 2 to 3 minutes before attempting any adjustment.
2. The following information is strictly for the Magneti Marelli injection
system. This includes all FLH's, Roadkings, etc. up to 2001. If adding fuel on
the green pot, as per basic adjustment #4, causes the bike to run worst, you
should follow this procedure
- Make sure the bike idles at 1000 to 1050 rpm. No exceptions. If the idle speed is wrong, remove the air cleaner cover, read adjust it. To verify that your bikes’ idle is not on the high idle mechanism, attempt to insert a small piece of paper between the base of the idle screw and the bracket it pushes against. Make sure you are adjusting and checking the idle screw, not the high idle adjustment. Check your shop manual if you are not sure. Once you have made the adjustment, double check with the air cleaner re-installed. The air cleaner and vent hose can cause a change in idle. Now follow the rest of the instructions.
- The number one problem we see is an intake manifold leak at the cylinder head. Check this by spraying aerosol carb cleaner at the intake manifold area when the bike is idling. If your idle changes, you have a leak and that needs to be fixed before proceeding.
- If there is no air leak, cycle the ignition key on and off ten times, allowing
the fuel pump to start and run until it stops each time.
- With the key off, pull the two flat fuses on the right side, for 15 minutes
and replace them.
- Now start the bike and re-attempt the adjustment as per basic intructions
#4. If there is still no change, disconnect our unit.
- Remove the air cleaner assembly to gain access to the throttle position sensor (TPS). Using a windproof lighter or small torch, heat the epoxy on the two Torx screws holding the TPS onto the throttle body and once warm, dig out the epoxy so that you can loosen the 2 screws.
- Make a scribe mark on the TPS and throttle body as a reference, loosen
slightly the two Torx screws, and bring the engine up to a fast idle of about
1500 rpm. Now very gently tap the TPS clockwise, that is moving the top of
the TPS switch towards you as you face the bike, so that it rotates the
switch the thickness of a business card (.010") off your scribe mark.
You should notice a change in the exhaust note to a leaner, uneven sound.
-Tighten the Torx screws, reconnect our unit and set the green fuel pot
again, like our basic instructions (#4). If you now achieve the desired
smooth idle, verify that the idle is still at 1000-1050 rpm. If so, pull the
fuses for 15 minutes and restart the bike one more time. If the idle has
changed, you need to readjust to 1000-1050 rpm, and then pull the fuses and
then restart.
3. Another common problem we have seen is a failed temperature sensor. The
noticeable issues connected with this failure are erratic driveability
problems (there one day but not the next, etc.) and backfiring on
deacceleration from high rpm down to 3000 rpm
4. If your bike has previously been experiencing occasional stalling, or
detonation at light loads (like in parking lots, etc.), we have found in the
field that sometimes removing the last factory HD download can solve those
conflicts. Our product always works best with a minimum of pre-existing
downloads Have your dealer remove one download and test ride your bike to
confirm an improvement of those issues prior to installing our product.
2. Forum member number 1
1. Pro Fueler (Dobeckperformancecycles)
When tuning our product on Harley Davidson’s, there is a possibility of coming
across mechanical and/or sensor issues that may have preceded the installation of our product and that may confuse the tuning procedures. If our base settings seem way off, or if following our basic adjustment sequence (#4) does not produce the desired results of smoother running as we suggest, then you may want to have your mechanic look into the following:
1995-2001 Touring models
1. In all of the recommended suggestions and settings given below, it is
imperative that you are working on a FULLY warmed up engine. That means driving the bike for a good 15 minutes and then idling it for another 2 to 3 minutes before attempting any adjustment.
2. The following information is strictly for the Magneti Marelli injection
system. This includes all FLH's, Roadkings, etc. up to 2001. If adding fuel on
the green pot, as per basic adjustment #4, causes the bike to run worst, you
should follow this procedure
- Make sure the bike idles at 1000 to 1050 rpm. No exceptions. If the idle speed is wrong, remove the air cleaner cover, read adjust it. To verify that your bikes’ idle is not on the high idle mechanism, attempt to insert a small piece of paper between the base of the idle screw and the bracket it pushes against. Make sure you are adjusting and checking the idle screw, not the high idle adjustment. Check your shop manual if you are not sure. Once you have made the adjustment, double check with the air cleaner re-installed. The air cleaner and vent hose can cause a change in idle. Now follow the rest of the instructions.
- The number one problem we see is an intake manifold leak at the cylinder head. Check this by spraying aerosol carb cleaner at the intake manifold area when the bike is idling. If your idle changes, you have a leak and that needs to be fixed before proceeding.
- If there is no air leak, cycle the ignition key on and off ten times, allowing
the fuel pump to start and run until it stops each time.
- With the key off, pull the two flat fuses on the right side, for 15 minutes
and replace them.
- Now start the bike and re-attempt the adjustment as per basic intructions
#4. If there is still no change, disconnect our unit.
- Remove the air cleaner assembly to gain access to the throttle position sensor (TPS). Using a windproof lighter or small torch, heat the epoxy on the two Torx screws holding the TPS onto the throttle body and once warm, dig out the epoxy so that you can loosen the 2 screws.
- Make a scribe mark on the TPS and throttle body as a reference, loosen
slightly the two Torx screws, and bring the engine up to a fast idle of about
1500 rpm. Now very gently tap the TPS clockwise, that is moving the top of
the TPS switch towards you as you face the bike, so that it rotates the
switch the thickness of a business card (.010") off your scribe mark.
You should notice a change in the exhaust note to a leaner, uneven sound.
-Tighten the Torx screws, reconnect our unit and set the green fuel pot
again, like our basic instructions (#4). If you now achieve the desired
smooth idle, verify that the idle is still at 1000-1050 rpm. If so, pull the
fuses for 15 minutes and restart the bike one more time. If the idle has
changed, you need to readjust to 1000-1050 rpm, and then pull the fuses and
then restart.
3. Another common problem we have seen is a failed temperature sensor. The
noticeable issues connected with this failure are erratic driveability
problems (there one day but not the next, etc.) and backfiring on
deacceleration from high rpm down to 3000 rpm
4. If your bike has previously been experiencing occasional stalling, or
detonation at light loads (like in parking lots, etc.), we have found in the
field that sometimes removing the last factory HD download can solve those
conflicts. Our product always works best with a minimum of pre-existing
downloads Have your dealer remove one download and test ride your bike to
confirm an improvement of those issues prior to installing our product.
2. Forum member number 1
On the MM injection intake, there are 2 air holes inside the intake, in front of the butterflies, at the 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock positions. These get dirty and cause some of the problems like he is having. I use MAP sensor cleaner to clean mine every time it acts up. stick spray nozzle in one hole at a time and turn key on as you spray, wait a few seconds and turn key off again. Repeat until each one gets clear. I stuff a small rag in by the butterflies so none gets into the intake as it may cause it to run a little rough until it clears out.
Engine temperature sensor is the heart of that system, it controls fuel adjustment and cold start solenoid operation. If the sensor is biased, it is reading engine temperature incorrectly, say it is 70 degrees and the sensor thinks it is 35 degrees, the ECM is flooding the engine with fuel for a cold start condition where the actual 70 degree engine can't burn the fuel with the throttle butterflies in the idle closed off angle. The fast idle stepper solenoid is also controled by the ETS so if it is sending a wrong signal to the ECM is will stay on longer causing the fast idle issue because once again, the ETS is telling the ECM it is cold and needs the fast idle solenoid to engage.
Spend a couple of hours and install a ETS for $70, it is located on top of the front head in the center of the rocker box and can raise the front of the fuel tank to sneak it out. Not that bad of job, it can be done in 30 minutes after doing it once.
Note: a failing ETS won't always throw a code so it can mess up diagnostics by the book, a scanner will monitor it and see that it is not accurrate but won't read a code if one isn't tripped.
Spend a couple of hours and install a ETS for $70, it is located on top of the front head in the center of the rocker box and can raise the front of the fuel tank to sneak it out. Not that bad of job, it can be done in 30 minutes after doing it once.
Note: a failing ETS won't always throw a code so it can mess up diagnostics by the book, a scanner will monitor it and see that it is not accurrate but won't read a code if one isn't tripped.
There is definitely an issue with one or more of the sensors in that bike. I would start with Bodean46's idea first. The two holes are called air bleeds. Next, resync the ECM to the IAC. (Run switch to RUN, Key ON for 5 sec, off for 10 sec. repeat). While you are there see if the IAC valve is working when you turn the key on the bike. It is a step motor, and if it is not moving, then it is bad, and should be replaced. You can try spraying some cleaner on it, and sometimes that will get it working again. One indication that I suspect the IAC is the high idle condition till it warms up.
There are tests for the ETS, and the TPS that are spelled out in the service manual.
There are tests for the ETS, and the TPS that are spelled out in the service manual.
Gotta agree to clean the throttle body as the drink your own fluid intake design causes a mess and cleaning it always helps with idle qualities and runabilty. Still be prepared for overfueling in every range of runability for a period of time caused by a failing ETS. Let us know
Sweet,
thank you gents. I will be seeing him in a few days and we can have at it.
I will pop back and drop a line if resolved, and probably if not.
Again,
thank you...
thank you gents. I will be seeing him in a few days and we can have at it.
I will pop back and drop a line if resolved, and probably if not.
Again,
thank you...
Trending Topics
Just do what I and others have done. Throw the MM garbage away and convert it to carb. The bike was available both ways from the MoCo and you can make or scrounge the harness. Everything else is easy to find. I even changed tanks instead of using the convertor adaptors. Easy-peasy and better performance, economy and liveability.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post








