Detonation wierdness
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From: Ohio
Reading that you said you had detonation with the stock engine which is strange but a EV27 at that compression is going to be harder than putting a wet noodle in a wildcats a$$ to keep from detonating I don't care how many dyno tunes, it is a fact that 10.5-1 or more with a 36 degree intake timing is going to require alot of timing retard and on a 95 degree day will be marbles at roll on. Hope you can tame it but gotta a uphill battle
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From: la la land jerzey
to me looking at it as a novice - one would see /// they took material off the heads - and the cylinders top and bottoms - used thinner gaskets .030 instead of .042 - and pop up pistons < not forged KB silverlites - than ported the heads - 5 angles on the valves - then used a short duration dresser cam for 8.5 to 1 compression for a heavy bike that 2 up cruses --
the net result is a medley of marbles singing as you go
- i dont know if a voes can be used as your static compression is maybe 200 PSI or more and 26 degrees may not be enough in a kick back of timing - also the crankcase pressure loss is enormous and breather timing hole needs to be almost twice its normal size to handle it - what the iron core in the alloy cylinder will do is bend and oval its shape the bores with the temps that combustion chamber is subjecting the top end too
you might need to turn the engine timing back to 24 degrees and not run a voes at all to stop the pinging but it will pull lots of power away and that is not going to happen its only been pinging since he bought it
i am out as i can offer no help to me too many mistakes have already gone on perhaps when it grenades ( not if when ) you will ask what you should have done
the net result is a medley of marbles singing as you go
- i dont know if a voes can be used as your static compression is maybe 200 PSI or more and 26 degrees may not be enough in a kick back of timing - also the crankcase pressure loss is enormous and breather timing hole needs to be almost twice its normal size to handle it - what the iron core in the alloy cylinder will do is bend and oval its shape the bores with the temps that combustion chamber is subjecting the top end too
you might need to turn the engine timing back to 24 degrees and not run a voes at all to stop the pinging but it will pull lots of power away and that is not going to happen its only been pinging since he bought it
i am out as i can offer no help to me too many mistakes have already gone on perhaps when it grenades ( not if when ) you will ask what you should have done
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From: burlington, wi
I don't know what the previous poster is talking about. Haha... sorry. Forged aluminum pistons, stock breather, ev27 cam with port... it is not the same intake as a stock bike... doesn't even look remotely the same anymore. I am trying to upload the dyno chart from scan and its not working. 94.41 HP, 89.92 TQ at (I am not sure if I am reading it right) 5.5x1000 rpms, Humidity says 41% sae1.00? Smoothing 5? Doesn't have stock readings. The only place it looks choppy is at the beginning of the chart. Everything else is smooth. Jim at J&B cycles built this motor. Over 30 years doing this, built motors for track, been in magazines, stands behind hit work. So before you get too expert and start rattling your guesses when you have no idea what you're talking about, that's what I got. My only issue is the detonation which I have had since I bought the bike stock.
By the way... why I originally came back to this post... ran 97 octane in the bike for a little over 60 miles today after work. Warmed it up for about 5 minutes before I rode. It had one detonation from the start and no more. usually it happens more for the first 15-20 minutes of riding then won't do it anymore.
Maybe I am wrong about the cam.
By the way... why I originally came back to this post... ran 97 octane in the bike for a little over 60 miles today after work. Warmed it up for about 5 minutes before I rode. It had one detonation from the start and no more. usually it happens more for the first 15-20 minutes of riding then won't do it anymore.
Maybe I am wrong about the cam.
Last edited by kermit_wisconsin; Apr 8, 2014 at 07:18 PM.
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From: la la land jerzey
So before you get too expert and start rattling your guesses when you have no idea what you're talking about
Not guessing sunny - my shop won 3 USA national championships road racing buells and others -
your guy is that good why are you asking what to do with an issue he should have taken care of - just asking
Not guessing sunny - my shop won 3 USA national championships road racing buells and others -
your guy is that good why are you asking what to do with an issue he should have taken care of - just asking
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Minnesota
A little to much compression for pump gas. Well, you could back off on the timing a little but you will loss a little bit of performance or try messing with the V.O.E.S. Like I said I had the same problem and it help out a lot. Detonation is not good for your motor. Good luck I hope you get if fixed.
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From: burlington, wi
So before you get too expert and start rattling your guesses when you have no idea what you're talking about
Not guessing sunny - my shop won 3 USA national championships road racing buells and others -
your guy is that good why are you asking what to do with an issue he should have taken care of - just asking
Not guessing sunny - my shop won 3 USA national championships road racing buells and others -
your guy is that good why are you asking what to do with an issue he should have taken care of - just asking
I did call him and he said to let it warm up til the rocker boxes are starting to get warm... the metal itself. Rode it for about 20 minutes without a single problem. Jim said that what I am calling detonation is not even close to being right. It's coughing because I am not letting the bike warm up (hence the black carburetor).
He said if it pings, he'll buy me a new motor. Haha. The dude's a freakin scientist, man. He got his MMI degree in the 80s then a degree in engineering. He isn't just someone who bolts crap onto other crap and calls it a build. The dude knows the science behind all this stuff. But it isn't pinging. The ride I went on a little bit ago was mostly me trying to make it cough again and it didn't. The throttle response was normal and everything seemed fine.
Otherwise, I don't know what you mean about marbles and singing... very faint gear whine... I've heard louder on brand new bikes, and there is nothing like marbles about the bike. It is smooth as hell and has really good useable power. I have ridden a lot of bikes. Nothing like this one though.
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From: Houston, TX
Pinging literally sounds like a rattle at the motor, and may not necessarily sound like "marbles" although that is a close description. Coughing, popping, and spitting sounds way differant from pinging, and the occasional cough or spit while the bike is cold is normal. My bike sounds like its popping out of the exhaust at steady throttle but it's just my imagination. Take the bags off and I don't even hear it, lol.
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From: burlington, wi
Pinging literally sounds like a rattle at the motor, and may not necessarily sound like "marbles" although that is a close description. Coughing, popping, and spitting sounds way differant from pinging, and the occasional cough or spit while the bike is cold is normal. My bike sounds like its popping out of the exhaust at steady throttle but it's just my imagination. Take the bags off and I don't even hear it, lol.
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From: Ohio
So you came here describing an issue with your bike and gave everybody a false symptom to go by, then popped off to a member who has helped many and is at LEAST as skilled as your guy. If I would have made myself look like such a jackass I'd have been man enough to apologize by now.