Properly Timing an Evo question
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 913
Likes: 5
From: indiana
im running out of ideas this is the only thing left is a faulty pickup or a bad ignition and the last thing is the cam and pinion gear not in time.
gear on cam no located properly bad key on pinion gear or your dots are not lined up on the gears
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,358
Likes: 34
Here's where I'm at. I pulled the voes plug and grounded it. Ran it at 2200 and I had to turn the plate as far as it would go. The most I can get is 34 degrees as confirmed by the dial on the light. If I then turn it back to zero the single dot is to the front left of the window can't center it so I know it's 34 degrees and accurate on the light. Now if I let the rpms drop to 1800 or so the timing dumps to 25 degrees which explains why I could never get this right before. I have to be at 2000 or over to get 34 degrees.
What am I missing here? Shouldn't there be enough adjustment to get to 35 degrees and beyond? Before I put it back together I rechecked the voes was grounded by checking pin 6 to a chassis ground and there was continuity.
What am I missing here? Shouldn't there be enough adjustment to get to 35 degrees and beyond? Before I put it back together I rechecked the voes was grounded by checking pin 6 to a chassis ground and there was continuity.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,856
Likes: 127
From: Middle of Kansas
I would think if your VOES was grounded and your timing was anywhere close you would have trouble starting the engine with the timing advanced that far. It should kick back. I have a switch between my VOES and the module so that I can turn it off manually. It will retard the timing enough that it drops the rpm a bunch at idle. Are you grounding the VOES plug at the side that goes to the module? If your VOES is not working and you ground the side that goes to the VOES it will keep your timing retarded. A leak in the vacuum line to the VOES will keep it inoperative as will bad contacts in the VOES itself. Just seems to me that it might be keeping your timing retarded. It could also be a broken wire between the VOES and the module. You should also be able to pull the vacuum line from the VOES and see a big difference as the idle drops. If it does not, you have a VOES problem.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
Ok, this nightrider link helped me..
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/i..._timing_01.htm
For whatever reason, the Snap-on light appears to be my issue.. My timing was right(about 3* retarded) when I started this timing hunt.... My pick-up is now back, about that 1/4" I mentioned earlier...... I've yet to drive it, but I fixed my timing light(the one I trust) and it now shows the single dot in the window @ 2400rpm with the VOES grounded..
Trying the Snap-on, I got 39*, using the method in the link.. I'm leaving it there, based on the first procedure, using the craftsman light that I trust..
Anyhow, food for thought..
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/i..._timing_01.htm
For whatever reason, the Snap-on light appears to be my issue.. My timing was right(about 3* retarded) when I started this timing hunt.... My pick-up is now back, about that 1/4" I mentioned earlier...... I've yet to drive it, but I fixed my timing light(the one I trust) and it now shows the single dot in the window @ 2400rpm with the VOES grounded..
Trying the Snap-on, I got 39*, using the method in the link.. I'm leaving it there, based on the first procedure, using the craftsman light that I trust..
Anyhow, food for thought..
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 913
Likes: 5
From: indiana
I would think if your VOES was grounded and your timing was anywhere close you would have trouble starting the engine with the timing advanced that far. It should kick back. I have a switch between my VOES and the module so that I can turn it off manually. It will retard the timing enough that it drops the rpm a bunch at idle. Are you grounding the VOES plug at the side that goes to the module? If your VOES is not working and you ground the side that goes to the VOES it will keep your timing retarded. A leak in the vacuum line to the VOES will keep it inoperative as will bad contacts in the VOES itself. Just seems to me that it might be keeping your timing retarded. It could also be a broken wire between the VOES and the module. You should also be able to pull the vacuum line from the VOES and see a big difference as the idle drops. If it does not, you have a VOES problem.
grounding a voes wire will advance the timing at a lower rpm. it wont make the motor hard to start unless you advance the plate to far
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,856
Likes: 127
From: Middle of Kansas
My reasoning is that with the VOES wire to the module grounded it sets the module to the advance mode even at start up. That is one of the purposes of the VOES to retard the ignition module until the vacuum comes up enough to advance the timing through it. There may not be enough change in the module to advance the timing far enough to make it hard to start though. Sometimes I tend to overthink things and my head hurts. LOL
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 913
Likes: 5
From: indiana
My reasoning is that with the VOES wire to the module grounded it sets the module to the advance mode even at start up. That is one of the purposes of the VOES to retard the ignition module until the vacuum comes up enough to advance the timing through it. There may not be enough change in the module to advance the timing far enough to make it hard to start though. Sometimes I tend to overthink things and my head hurts. LOL
its not hard to overthink it. here is the way it works on a stock Harley you have a timing curve. that starts at around 4* at startup and 35* at around 4200 rpm. and when the voes switch is tripped the second curve is used. it starts at the same 4* but its maxed out at 35* at around 1400rpm.
so if your at 2500 rpm with the throttle wide open (no voes present) your at around 17*. and if your at 2500 rpm with the throttle just open far enough to hold that rpm (voes present) your at 35* .
so the voes does not retard the timing it advances it. by switching to a more aggressive curve when the bike is not under a load
I hope that helped explain it.