Surging
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,590
Likes: 444
From: Ohio
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,080
Likes: 2,154
From: Ohio
2 small holes on the top side of the plenom at the entry area, try and use the straw in the holes and also direct the spray to the intake temp sensor on the left side of the plenom. Keep the butterflies open with the throttle lock and let the cleaner evaporate for a while before firing it.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 827
Likes: 59
From: Canada
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 856
Likes: 9
From: North Carolina
I do love touring on the Harley. For many years I rode all kinds of metric bikes and would blow past the Harley's out on the interstate. They were crusing along at or around the speed limit. I was way over.
I was riding with a buddy one time and we were in the mountains. I had a Honda Goldwing and I blew on down the road way ahead. When we met up again at the end of that road my buddy was glowing and saying "Man, did you see that beautiful valley?" I didn't see squat but pavement and stripes. That day I decided to slow down and enjoy the ride rather than being addicted to destination. That was 1992.
The Harley kinda makes the journey one mile at a time. Kick back and enjoy the ride. So now, I'm the guy out on the interstate crusing along at around the speed limit with the metric bikes blowing by me.
I was riding with a buddy one time and we were in the mountains. I had a Honda Goldwing and I blew on down the road way ahead. When we met up again at the end of that road my buddy was glowing and saying "Man, did you see that beautiful valley?" I didn't see squat but pavement and stripes. That day I decided to slow down and enjoy the ride rather than being addicted to destination. That was 1992.
The Harley kinda makes the journey one mile at a time. Kick back and enjoy the ride. So now, I'm the guy out on the interstate crusing along at around the speed limit with the metric bikes blowing by me.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 827
Likes: 59
From: Canada
Today I was able to do the various checks suggested here.
Cleaned throttle body and holes in chamber with carb cleaner, wiped it clean and dried it out.
Started bike , watched stepper motor, out when key on , and back in when warmed up, took bike for a ride and once completely warmed up, the surging at idle started again.
Checked stepper motor at this time and it was still in, and not moving at all.
Removed and replaced ECM fuse as well, and rechecked, same thing no different.
Anyone have any other thoughts, I do appreciate the help.
Thanks.
EDIT- I only cleaned in front of the butterflys and the 2 holes in front of them, as well as the butterflys themselves.
I did not stick the straw in behind and spray, was I supposed to?
Cleaned throttle body and holes in chamber with carb cleaner, wiped it clean and dried it out.
Started bike , watched stepper motor, out when key on , and back in when warmed up, took bike for a ride and once completely warmed up, the surging at idle started again.
Checked stepper motor at this time and it was still in, and not moving at all.
Removed and replaced ECM fuse as well, and rechecked, same thing no different.
Anyone have any other thoughts, I do appreciate the help.
Thanks.
EDIT- I only cleaned in front of the butterflys and the 2 holes in front of them, as well as the butterflys themselves.
I did not stick the straw in behind and spray, was I supposed to?
Last edited by johnod; Jun 18, 2014 at 03:53 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 233
From:
i had a buell lightning that did the same thing. Fuel injected, i think they have the sportster engines. It drove me nuts, and drove me to eventually sell the bike. I had those dam surges, would ride fine but as soon as i hit a stoplight it would rev up and down and up and down, and sometimes up......and not come down til i took off again. Happened worse on hot days. It was ridiculous and embarrasing! I did everything, took it to 3 different mechanics. All had different ideas and found different things wrong. TPS sensor, spark plug wire burnt through, gasket leak, exhaust leak, you name it i had it done....it stumped the best of them. Good luck finding the problem.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,080
Likes: 2,154
From: Ohio
Ok, with doing basics and no repair, no codes and can't monitor the TPS with a scanner it is getting tough. If we look at what sensors control it can eliminate some guessing. Engine position sensor controls injector fire and causes the engine to shut off it not right, engine temp sensor controls change of injector pulse length with engine temp and a rich or lean condition if failing, throttle position sensor matches injector pulse length to air intake and affects idle quality.
Still stay basic and don't overlook non EFI items, spray the intake seals to head area and check for a leak. Take the connector body off the TPS and make sure no corrosion or loose pins, pull the connector off the ECM and check for corrosion on the pins. If that is ok then you will need to check the TPS with a VOM to see what is going on with it at idle, off hand I can't remember where idle volts should be but if it doesn't match the idle volts it can do some weird stuff.
When it is on fast idle at start up does it surge? or starts when it falls back to idle, that might indicate a TPS sensor is out of range.
You may have the idle set too low causing this also, should be at 1000 rpm and might be falling below desired idle and trying to catch back up or another indicator that the TPS is messing up. bump the idle up some and see if it calms down.
Still stay basic and don't overlook non EFI items, spray the intake seals to head area and check for a leak. Take the connector body off the TPS and make sure no corrosion or loose pins, pull the connector off the ECM and check for corrosion on the pins. If that is ok then you will need to check the TPS with a VOM to see what is going on with it at idle, off hand I can't remember where idle volts should be but if it doesn't match the idle volts it can do some weird stuff.
When it is on fast idle at start up does it surge? or starts when it falls back to idle, that might indicate a TPS sensor is out of range.
You may have the idle set too low causing this also, should be at 1000 rpm and might be falling below desired idle and trying to catch back up or another indicator that the TPS is messing up. bump the idle up some and see if it calms down.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 827
Likes: 59
From: Canada
Bagger , again thanks for your input.
When I first start it on fast idle , it does not surge, when it drops off fast idle it still does not surge.
It only starts to surge after it gets completely warmed up, say after a couple of miles for instance.
I'll check all the items I can on your list of things to check.
The bike sat for about 1.5 years with just occasional starts, and no mileage.
Prior to that the ETS had been replaced not long before the storage started.
Thought I'd add that info.
What's VOM?
Thanks.
When I first start it on fast idle , it does not surge, when it drops off fast idle it still does not surge.
It only starts to surge after it gets completely warmed up, say after a couple of miles for instance.
I'll check all the items I can on your list of things to check.
The bike sat for about 1.5 years with just occasional starts, and no mileage.
Prior to that the ETS had been replaced not long before the storage started.
Thought I'd add that info.
What's VOM?
Thanks.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,852
Likes: 2,493
From: Decatur, Alabama
get yourself a cheap tachometer and check the idle speed when hot and cold. Hot should be about 1500 rpm or less and cold should be around 1,000. they are simple to use, just clip it over a plug wire and read. $35.
Now to check to see if you have any stored fault codes do this:
1. turn ignition switch on, then off, then on, off, then on and leave on. Do this fairly quickly. Pay no attention to what the fuel pump is doing.
2. Watch the red IGN light. It's going to give you a bunch of rapid blinks, pause for a second, then more rapid blinks followed by a long pause.
3. Now the blinks come slowly. Count the blinks and remember that number. There is a pause, then more blinks. Count those as well.
So after counting you should have a two digit number. That is the fault code number that the ECM has stored. After the blinking stops there will be another pause followed by either more slow blinks, or a bunch of rapid ones. The sequence will repeat from start to finish as long as you have the ign. switch on. You could have one or more fault codes. I've only ever had one at a time.
The fault code for a bad engine temperature sensor is 14. You get a 14, you got a bad ETS. They are easy to replace and despite what the service manual says, the tank and coil do NOT have to be removed to do the job.
Let us know if you have a code. Also, if you don't have a service manual, the the HARLEY one and also the parts book. Worth their weight in gold.
Carl
Now to check to see if you have any stored fault codes do this:
1. turn ignition switch on, then off, then on, off, then on and leave on. Do this fairly quickly. Pay no attention to what the fuel pump is doing.
2. Watch the red IGN light. It's going to give you a bunch of rapid blinks, pause for a second, then more rapid blinks followed by a long pause.
3. Now the blinks come slowly. Count the blinks and remember that number. There is a pause, then more blinks. Count those as well.
So after counting you should have a two digit number. That is the fault code number that the ECM has stored. After the blinking stops there will be another pause followed by either more slow blinks, or a bunch of rapid ones. The sequence will repeat from start to finish as long as you have the ign. switch on. You could have one or more fault codes. I've only ever had one at a time.
The fault code for a bad engine temperature sensor is 14. You get a 14, you got a bad ETS. They are easy to replace and despite what the service manual says, the tank and coil do NOT have to be removed to do the job.
Let us know if you have a code. Also, if you don't have a service manual, the the HARLEY one and also the parts book. Worth their weight in gold.
Carl
Thread Starter
|
Road Master
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 827
Likes: 59
From: Canada
get yourself a cheap tachometer and check the idle speed when hot and cold. Hot should be about 1500 rpm or less and cold should be around 1,000. they are simple to use, just clip it over a plug wire and read. $35.
Now to check to see if you have any stored fault codes do this:
1. turn ignition switch on, then off, then on, off, then on and leave on. Do this fairly quickly. Pay no attention to what the fuel pump is doing.
2. Watch the red IGN light. It's going to give you a bunch of rapid blinks, pause for a second, then more rapid blinks followed by a long pause.
3. Now the blinks come slowly. Count the blinks and remember that number. There is a pause, then more blinks. Count those as well.
So after counting you should have a two digit number. That is the fault code number that the ECM has stored. After the blinking stops there will be another pause followed by either more slow blinks, or a bunch of rapid ones. The sequence will repeat from start to finish as long as you have the ign. switch on. You could have one or more fault codes. I've only ever had one at a time.
The fault code for a bad engine temperature sensor is 14. You get a 14, you got a bad ETS. They are easy to replace and despite what the service manual says, the tank and coil do NOT have to be removed to do the job.
Let us know if you have a code. Also, if you don't have a service manual, the the HARLEY one and also the parts book. Worth their weight in gold.
Carl
Now to check to see if you have any stored fault codes do this:
1. turn ignition switch on, then off, then on, off, then on and leave on. Do this fairly quickly. Pay no attention to what the fuel pump is doing.
2. Watch the red IGN light. It's going to give you a bunch of rapid blinks, pause for a second, then more rapid blinks followed by a long pause.
3. Now the blinks come slowly. Count the blinks and remember that number. There is a pause, then more blinks. Count those as well.
So after counting you should have a two digit number. That is the fault code number that the ECM has stored. After the blinking stops there will be another pause followed by either more slow blinks, or a bunch of rapid ones. The sequence will repeat from start to finish as long as you have the ign. switch on. You could have one or more fault codes. I've only ever had one at a time.
The fault code for a bad engine temperature sensor is 14. You get a 14, you got a bad ETS. They are easy to replace and despite what the service manual says, the tank and coil do NOT have to be removed to do the job.
Let us know if you have a code. Also, if you don't have a service manual, the the HARLEY one and also the parts book. Worth their weight in gold.
Carl
One thing here stands out for me and demands a question on my part.
Are you saying with the engine warm, fully at operating temp. rpm should be about 1500?
I thought it was supposed to be about 1000.
Can you clarify that for me please.
I have the Clymer manual ,and the HD manual I should have tomorrow.
I will check the codes as you suggested.
Today I turned the fast idle screw in to see what would happen, at about 1300rpm the surge disappears, but anything lower and it's right back.
This is at operating temp.
1300 seemed high to me, let me know please.
Again thanks for the help.
O the bike has a tach already.
j
Last edited by johnod; Jun 19, 2014 at 02:29 PM.