Smokin' hot?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 31
From: Florida
RE: Smokin' hot?
I just lost a long reply to you and I hate typing anyway so call me some time today but mean while look at this break in secret article.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htmThis heat cycle you all go through on a new set of rings I don't agree with, not on todays motors.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htmThis heat cycle you all go through on a new set of rings I don't agree with, not on todays motors.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 8
From: Minneapolis Area, MN
RE: Smokin' hot?
Thanks for taking the time to talk with me on Saturday. Just got back from the Father's Day roadtrip...230 miles.
Before I left I put in fresh oil and a filter and pulled the carb to check the intake manifold for evidence of oil. None...just some gas. So that rules out the front cylinder intake valve seal failure.
Before I left I put in fresh oil and a filter and pulled the carb to check the intake manifold for evidence of oil. None...just some gas. So that rules out the front cylinder intake valve seal failure.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 8
From: Minneapolis Area, MN
RE: Smokin' hot?
I advanced the timing some and the temp seems cooler now.
As for the smokin' part, 500 miles after the build and still smokin'.
I was going to call the guy that did my head / cylinder work but decided to wait till I know all I can. I'm gonna pull the carb and see if I can use a mirror to look at the intake valves through the manifold to check the stems for oil.
As for the smokin' part, 500 miles after the build and still smokin'.
I was going to call the guy that did my head / cylinder work but decided to wait till I know all I can. I'm gonna pull the carb and see if I can use a mirror to look at the intake valves through the manifold to check the stems for oil.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 8
From: Minneapolis Area, MN
RE: Smokin' hot?
610 miles since rebuild. Still smokin'.
I removed the carb and looked through the manifold at the intake valve stems. Looked clean. I suppose there could be a thin coating of clean engine oil that I couldn't see. I couldn't reach them to take a "culture".
Now I think I'm down to two things. The oil control ring or the head gasket.
I noticed when I start it there's a pretty good shot of smoke which goes right away at first glance. It's there....just faint. I also noticed that if I put my hand behind the exhaust while the engine is cold that I get specs of oil on my hand. Once warmed up, the oil doensn't spatter out on my hand and the smoke is more pronounced.
Thoughts?
I removed the carb and looked through the manifold at the intake valve stems. Looked clean. I suppose there could be a thin coating of clean engine oil that I couldn't see. I couldn't reach them to take a "culture".
Now I think I'm down to two things. The oil control ring or the head gasket.
I noticed when I start it there's a pretty good shot of smoke which goes right away at first glance. It's there....just faint. I also noticed that if I put my hand behind the exhaust while the engine is cold that I get specs of oil on my hand. Once warmed up, the oil doensn't spatter out on my hand and the smoke is more pronounced.
Thoughts?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 31
From: Florida
RE: Smokin' hot?
Still sounds like a valve guide to me....the ring would smoke all the time. Take off the pipe on the rear cylinder and look into the exhaust port....it should be sooty but dry...if it is black and mucky it's oil from a exhaust guide seal or guide itself.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 851
Likes: 1
RE: Smokin' hot?
this may sound like a stupid question but if you dont have a tach, how can u tell the rpm's???
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 8
From: Minneapolis Area, MN
RE: Smokin' hot?
Did you dino or syn oil?
...the ring would smoke all the time...
this may sound like a stupid question but if you dont have a tach, how can u tell the rpm's???
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I rode to the shop that did my head / cylinder work today. I was shocked by the amount of smoke and seems to think that a crankcase breather problem may be contributing but looks mostly like a ring problem. Possibly upsidedown...possibly overstressed and / or physically damaged on the way onto the piston or into the cylinder.
Looks like the top end will have to be pulled again. I don't mind pulling it again, but I do wanna make some trips this season. I need to get it solved this time around.
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Editted to add:
The engine temp is definitely lower since I advanced the timing. I'm not sure how much I advanced it, but I can still see one of the two timing dots in the window.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,276
Likes: 8
From: Minneapolis Area, MN
RE: Still Smokin'...but not so hot
Well...800 or so miles since the build...and still smokin'. I decided to tear into it again.
I planned on re-honing the cylinders and putting in a new set of rings thinking that there was something wrong with the oil rings...maybe upsidedown...overstressed when installed...something.
The bike had been sitting for four days since the last ride of 150 miles or so. When I pulled off the intake manifold, I was shocked so see oil. When I looked into the front intake port, I was shocked to see oil pooling on the valve. The rear intake valve was open so I don't know if there was pooling going on or not. The front and rear cylinders both had a fair amount of oil in them. The front piston had some carbon buildup while the rear was clean. The middle rings were NOT upsidedown.
Doc, it looks like you may be on to something with the front intake valve seal leaking and the rear cylinder sucking the oil through the manifold.
Aside from a damaged intake valve seal, what else could cause oil to pool up like that on the valve? Excess crank pressure? Cracked head?
I planned on re-honing the cylinders and putting in a new set of rings thinking that there was something wrong with the oil rings...maybe upsidedown...overstressed when installed...something.
The bike had been sitting for four days since the last ride of 150 miles or so. When I pulled off the intake manifold, I was shocked so see oil. When I looked into the front intake port, I was shocked to see oil pooling on the valve. The rear intake valve was open so I don't know if there was pooling going on or not. The front and rear cylinders both had a fair amount of oil in them. The front piston had some carbon buildup while the rear was clean. The middle rings were NOT upsidedown.
Doc, it looks like you may be on to something with the front intake valve seal leaking and the rear cylinder sucking the oil through the manifold.
Aside from a damaged intake valve seal, what else could cause oil to pool up like that on the valve? Excess crank pressure? Cracked head?