What do you think of this combo? What do you guess the #'s would be? Do you think it would be a good combo? This is for my RKC wich I ride solo always. The only time it has other weight (that would matter) is on long trips about 2-3 times a year.
Flat top 95" pistons
S&S 570G gear drive cams
SE HTCC heads PN 16933-99B
SE stage 1 A/C w/ Big sucker filter
SERT
V&H Pro Pipe

KB

 

it sounds real good. only concern i would have is what is the compression ratio going to be which dictates what grind cam to use. U hope you go with gear drives. in addition to being safe for not failing they are good for 2-3 ponies and 4-5 lbs torque by themselves.

 

Check the lift height of the cams. SE heads won't handle extreme lift heights. Just check the specs on both to make sure there is sufficient clearance for the valve lift from the cams.

 

Well the cams are a .570" lift, and the heads will take up to a .575" lift cam. So I am good there. Thank's for the reply's so far, any more out there?

KB

 

Ok you intend on using the HTCC heads and flat otp pistons?? sorry but that will be a very poor combo. The HTCC combustion chamber is A desinged for a certian piston, B you comp ratio is going to be low. If you are set on the HTCC heads ( ported or non??) then use the correct piston, and I would use the 211 if you are using only se parts, if you are not( S&S cam) then I would use the Woods tw5. I have used this cam in that combo many times and it works great. Here is a sheet on a 211 with htcc with pro pipe and a PCIIIR USB, then with a cam swap to the tw5. The 211 is not a bad cam but tends to be a late builder, the tw5 made a HUGE difference, the HTCC set is a 10.5.1 design as the compression is what is building the TQ. There are easier ways to build big tq

[IMG]local://upfiles/3113/88BA04F5C5F34DBEA53D49FBA7787659.jpg[/IMG]

 

KBES,

I agree with almost all of hdwrenches recommendations except if you stay all harley I would not look to the 211 I had it in my 03 bagger and got rid of it as fast as I could. With the weight of the bagger you need to get the bike rolling and that takes torque. I had the 204 in the bike originally and then went to the 251. I prefered the 251 over the 204 because the 204 died at about 5k rpm and for me I was willing to give up a few starting rpm from about 2000 to about 2400. For me it was a riding style difference nothing more. The 211 really doesnt come on as he said till late for me it was 3500 to 5500 cam, but for me my buddies would all take off and then I had to play catch up sure on the highway it was good, but I hated playing catchup all the time.

Gear drives would be nice if you go that route Zippers 557 / S&S 570 / Woods TW5g /

Personally if your spending all this money you might as well go to the SE HTCC CNC' s not the D intake port ones, with the pistons 10.5 to 1 / compression releases and the cam of your chooosing with the SERT / Air Cleaner.

option B:
If your not then why not have your stock juggs bored (this is what harley did until about I think it was 2003) it will save you some money and then have someone do some headwork on your stock heads cost you less and get to a 10:1 motor where you dont need compression releases and only have to buy new pistons and the screaming chicken push rods and well all the associated gaskets
and again the cam of your choice.

Just a secondary thought.

 

I am ok with disagrement, The 211 is the most popular cam with that combo, the 251 is less overlap, but a higher lift. Both cams work good , I have used both I find the 251 to have a "weird" powerband, the 211 seems smoother over all. And like I said "if" you have to use Se parts. There are other options

 

O.K. Change it up to this then. I bought a few part's before I was wise to gear drive cams. What should I keep, what should I trade and what else should I add. I have a Pro Pipe, SERT, and SE A/C with big sucker. No need to change that, but I also have the forged high compression 1550 piston's PN22868-00, I have SE 211 cams, adjustable pushrods, cam service kit, and some other bearing's and gasket's for the cam install. I want to go gear drive cams no exceptions, I also want to get at least 100/100. I was hoping that I could use one of the SE head's mainly for price since you can get them cheap through some on-line vender's. I want it to run good on 91 octane since that is the norm here in Cal.

The part's guy at my local dealership said to run the forged high compression PN22868-00 pistons, the 211's some head work and the pipe, SERT, A/C set up I have and I would be at like 105 or so HP and 110 or so TQ. Then while talking to the service manager he said I would have to mill those pistons to work with those cams and that it is not worth the effort or money to do it. He said to run flat tops, 510's or 570's and put the SE head's PN16933-99B with the A/C, pipe and SERT I have and it would work very nice together for about 105HP and 110TQ.

So between all that and this I am lost as he!!, as you can tell. So back to the top of this post, what shall I do. Thank you for your reply's and sorry for the lack of knowledge.

KB

 

No problems with lack of knowledge.

But the numbers they are stating are a fairytale however. Plenty of dyno sheets out there with SE parts, and getting 105hp and 110 tq is something from a SE set up that I have not seen. Now if you want to play with the dyno sheets sure I can make some numbers for you but they will not be of any good to you. In fact after looking through over 100 dyno sheets that are that combo I could not find any that numbers. Add porting more compression big cam and you will get there or close. No those are peak numbers when you look at the tq curve you are going to find that the curve will be very late building. Really you need to look at the big picture not peak numbers like 100/100. Great if you are looking to make dyno numbers, infact I have seen 88 make over 120hp but alot of good it would do for riding, being that you have nothing under 4000 rpm what fun is that?? Too many get looking at peak numbers how usable is 100 tq and 100hp when they are in a high range that you are only in for a short period of time?? Being that with a 6000 shift point when you shift the engine will be back 4000 range.


For the normal street use you will find that you have to KEEP it buzzed up. FOr what it is worth to gain more usable tq in the normal rpm range you need extra cubes or high compression or both.

You stated htcc heads then se sonot sure what model you are speaking of . The SE performer heads are cheap to buy and offer some gains. But do not forget the heads you own they will and can offer great performance for less money spent than a HTCC head or the Perfromer.

You cna go the 95 inch route with head work gear drive cam and make good tq in the 100-108 range and hp in the 100 range. You need to decide where you want the tq curve at then go from there.

Use a 98 inch kit 9.7 and a 37 g and it will be above 100 tq from 2300 to 4700 with peak in the 100-109 range hp will be inthe high 90's with that cam.

 

KBES,

Based on your name KBES BAGGER especially the Bagger part

Baggers are heavy so you need torque to get them moving so considering that and your 91 octane fuel requirements

If it were me I would most likely talk to a head guy and have him setup my bike for 9.7 to 9.8 to 1 run a Andrews 55g have my heads setup to run this and move on down the road. When I did this I was at roughly 104 torque / 100 horsepower and the bike ran fantastic everywhere. There is a thread on here with some head guys on it. I would suggest a few like John Sachs, Branch, Al Redman, Don Tilley, Wes Brown (Cycle Rama), Short Block Charlie, Danny at Shenandoah Harley, and Baisely to name a few.

This will allow you not to have compression releases it will allow you save money on Juggs and New Heads and will make you a great bike all around.

1. have your existing juggs bored out to fit the pistons for your 95 upgrade
2. have the stock heads you have worked to meet your criteria / cam
3. Break it in with a base map off the race tuner
4. Dyno it for fine Tuning
5. Ride it like ya stole it

You should end up with a cost factor about this
250 to 300 for the juggs
500 to 750 heads for rework
Cams with Gears approx 650 to 700
Dyno Time 150 to 300 depending on who you use.
Labor time 10 to 12 hours depending on the shop.

I would recommend though if your going through this to add a Reed Valve to the oil pump and a Zippers Schim for aligning it while your in there. You may also consider a Fueling Oil pump (no reed valve if you do this) / new lifters depending on what you got in there.

Hope this helps you some.

-harry