Ticking getting louder in 09 RKC
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 23
From: Summit, Mississippi
Ticking getting louder in 09 RKC
I've known guys that tried to solve the problem with alternate lubricants, larger oil pumps, lifters, push rods, gear drives....you name it. Some fixes seem to work and some don't. I have read somewhere that the rocker arms were hitting the inside of the top cover in some cases. I figure that if mine has not flown-apart by now...it won't. I just turn-up my radio.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
Likes: 7
From: Northeast Ohio
Because the moco pays an engineering department a pretty healthy annual salary to figure out what works best, givin the materials used and tolerances givin, amongst other variables on their motors .
Swapping lubes (more than once) is probably not the best idea, period, unless someone has tested and discovered any issues with interactions of additives-chemicals used in the lubes.
Swapping lubes (more than once) is probably not the best idea, period, unless someone has tested and discovered any issues with interactions of additives-chemicals used in the lubes.
Using anything other the HD recomended lubricants is not the cause of excessive ticking, engine noises, etc unless you are using an oil that does not meet the HD recommended spec and weight. Different wieght oils at certain temps can have an impact on the overall lubrication and engine noises, but switching to something other than what HD uses will not cause issues, again as long as the oil meets the recommended minimums. Yes, HD has a very large R&D dept and runs a myriad of tests, but if there was an issue, they would say so, and they dont.
Changing oil weights is recommended by HD for certain temps. Changing to a different oil every oil change may have some impact in that each oil has differing additives, and some may not mix so well with the next oil, but overall, if you use a premium oil you will be fine. Oil is like religion, everyone has opinion on the best and will generate huge debates over what is good and what is not.
Go ahead and flame away, I use ATF in the primary and without issue, far from what HD recommends. Even on the big inch, highpower engine I am running, I change engine oils at 5k, tranny once a year and primaty at 10k (based on oil analysis). I put an average of 15 - 20k miles a year (in less than a 6 month riding season) on the bike and I will be the first to know if anything goes wrong that is oil related.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,578
Likes: 19,791
From: Ramona, Ca
turning up the radio/wearing ear plugs, etc. doen't fix a damn frickin thing. the noise/problem is still there. I have tried the easiest "fixes", by changing the oil recommended by the forum. Mobil 1, Amsol with Lucas Oil Additive, SYN3 and now I run HD 20-50. Oil is not the cure. I feel it has something to do with the lifters. Will be taking the bike in for the 5000 mile service and lets see what the service dudes say. Wanna bet they say, "it's normal"? I'm giving them first shot, if they blo me off, it's off to the Indy here in Ramona
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Your noise is the compensator, not the lifters. The speeds and gears you are in are a classic problem area for it.
Ron
Ron
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Ramona, Ca
so what is the fix?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
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From: Northeast Ohio
Most will notice the "top end noise" comes and goes, so it leads to harmoncis, either in the compensator, chain, basket, etc. A lifter will not come and go, either it works, or it doesn't for the most part.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,543
Likes: 19
From: Ashland Ohio
I have chased this to God's end of the earth on 09 SG.
I have engine all apart for an upgrade and looked things over somewhat.
The bushings inside of the rocker arms appear to be reamed out off center. I can see the tooling marks for about three quarters of the bushing and then the other section looks like the reamer didn't touch it.
A builder on a different site clued me into to this. ALL of the tolerences in the valve train can be at the maximum allowable spec... still WITHIN spec, but the added 'slack' can contribute to this 'stack height' measurement. With things moving around a few thousandths... the lifters cannot keep up with it.
So... I have NEW bushings, lifters, and rocker shafts (which are .005 larger than the ones I took out).
Im a hopin....................... when I put this back together............ otherwise, since I will KNOW it's all good, I'm just going to live with it.
I have engine all apart for an upgrade and looked things over somewhat.
The bushings inside of the rocker arms appear to be reamed out off center. I can see the tooling marks for about three quarters of the bushing and then the other section looks like the reamer didn't touch it.
A builder on a different site clued me into to this. ALL of the tolerences in the valve train can be at the maximum allowable spec... still WITHIN spec, but the added 'slack' can contribute to this 'stack height' measurement. With things moving around a few thousandths... the lifters cannot keep up with it.
So... I have NEW bushings, lifters, and rocker shafts (which are .005 larger than the ones I took out).
Im a hopin....................... when I put this back together............ otherwise, since I will KNOW it's all good, I'm just going to live with it.
Last edited by wurk_truk; Aug 30, 2009 at 04:33 PM.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,578
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From: Ramona, Ca
There should be no chasing with these problems,,,,,,,,HD should have come out with a bulletin or something, letting the dealers, Indies, owners of bikes know what the cause and fix is,,,,,,,this is total bull ****,,,,,,,live with it?, turn up the radio? get louder pipes? are all wrong fixes!!
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 23
From: Summit, Mississippi
Ticking getting louder in 09 RKC
I don't disagree with anybody here suggesting fixes for a noise and they can travel around and make one think it's something entirely different than the actual cause. I have always had a pretty significant valve train noise, but have never sprung for the bucks to change oil pumps, lifters, push rods, etc. I have talked to guy's that did all this stuff and still had the noise. I can tell you that I have had several compensator nut problems with mine and that nut has been tightened more than once by more that one dealership. The last time, I watched them do it and we had two people on the torque wrench. The point is...I still have my valve train noise.
I will say too that it is possible for a lifter to come-n-go. I worked on a sportster a while back with an interment miss. I finally caught it missing and was able to get a good compression check on both cylinders. The front cylinder was down to around 80 pounds. I pulled it apart and just for giggles put a set of lifters in the front. It brought the compression back up to spec and the bike is still running fine to this day. I think there must have been some trash in the lifter and it would not bleed down at times.
I will say too that it is possible for a lifter to come-n-go. I worked on a sportster a while back with an interment miss. I finally caught it missing and was able to get a good compression check on both cylinders. The front cylinder was down to around 80 pounds. I pulled it apart and just for giggles put a set of lifters in the front. It brought the compression back up to spec and the bike is still running fine to this day. I think there must have been some trash in the lifter and it would not bleed down at times.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 23
From: Summit, Mississippi
Ticking getting louder in 09 RKC
Chief...I meant to say that I sympathize with your frustration. I have owned new Harley's since 1986 and have never owned one that did not have some sort of problem I had to fix or live with and that holds true right up to the most current models. The one I ride now is just a noisy toaster-oven.......but I love it and would not own another brand. Many of us out here have been beating our heads against the brick wall with little results. We have all heard "that's normal" so many times that we just know what to expect. Good luck on getting any satisfaction from a dealer. Few people that I have ever known ever have. I wish you the best!