Working on a late winter project that focuses on engine performance upgrades on my 2006 FXSTSI. Looking for some feedback and advice.

I am starting with a 2006 FXSTSI 88B, 25 deg injectors, Forcewinder AC, Hooker Troublemaker Radius (equivalent to VH Big Radius), SERT with Stage I download. My priority is more low/mid torque vice peak HP. That said I spend a lot of time on the highway so mid/top end torque for passing would be a plus. Not as concerned about big HP gains.

I want to stay with SE parts out of preference and necessity. SE builds allow me to take advantage of canned Cals for the SERT; so I can effectively install and go. Also, I lack tuners/Dyno’s in the immediate area. So any variance from SE Cals means I have a long way to go plus additional cost for tuning. Based on what I am after I think SE setups should be more than adequate. But I am not 100% sure so want some feedback from you.

Based on conversations with my local mech, just going with 203’s or 204’s won’t give me what I want. He recommended going with a build that included high-compression heads. He also suggested avoiding the boxed 103” kits. He suggested a good combo of 1550 high-comp heads, pistons, and a good cam. He said that would feel and perform better than a 103” kit. Based on that information his recommendation was to use Calibration #42: 2006 Shotgun / Shorty Dual Exhaust, Configuration: 1550 High Output, File Name: 141PB003-A0.MT6
Components:
25deg Injectors P/N 27709-06 (installed)
SE Air Cleaner and Breather Kit P/N 29440-99B (Forcewinder installed)
SE 1550 Big Bore Cylinders P/N 16546-99 or 16549-99
SE High-Compression Forged Pistons P/N 22868-00
SE Performance Heads P/N 16952-99A or 16953-99A
SE 257 Cam P/N 25155-00
SE II Slip-Fit Mufflers P/N 80349-00A or 80258-99A (Hooker trblmkrs installed)

According to my mech, this was a good compromise given my goals and the options available. The high-compression would provide the low end torque I wanted. The SE257’s, although coming on late, would provide good mid/high end increases. So in essence I am getting the best of both worlds. I will have noticeable torque increase over stock plus I will get some big torque/HP gains on the top end.

I have about 20K miles on my bike now. I may convert to the newer hydraulic cam tensioners while I am in there. There aren’t enough newer bikes with enough miles on them to assess whether or not this solves the tensioner wear problems. But it should reduce maintenance and give me the oil pump so I figure it’s worth doing since I have to pull the plate and cams anyway.

My big questions…
I found newer/different part numbers (and prices) for the heads and a couple other parts. The SE catalog has newer part numbers than what is shown in the Cal description above. Is there a difference? If I can find the older part numbers available for less money, any reason to avoid them?

Is this a decent build option? Will I really feel a big difference on bottom end torque based on the high-compression?

Thanks.

 

If your looking for low-end power, and your guy is reccommending a 257, in spite of the high compression sugesstion, then you'd best be looking for another way of thinking.
To keep it short, here is what WILL fill your needs;
Bore to either 95, or 98".
Bob Wood TW-6G cams
Set compression @ 10.2
Cylinder head modifications to your castings
Good exhaust
Tune.
This combo will not only "strike", off the bottom, but continue to pull to 5500 if so desired.
Even more can be had with a 6H, but at that point, roller rockers are reccommended.
Scott

 

Thanks for the reply. It was the need to tune that had me leaning toward an SE specific solution.

Any major issue with using a Revtech DFO with your recommended setup? I have one on my Deuce and found that pretty simple to work with.

Certainly using my SERT with a skilled tech and a Dyno would yield more precise results. But I am most likely going to need to dial the bike in on my own.

 

You are actually asking for trouble.

Simply put... canned maps are NOT worth a crap. You want to do cams and a BB kit? Get the tune.

Good person for tunes in NC. T Man performance.

Now... once you finally figure out that a Tune is a NECESSITY, then you can make some reliable power with after market parts, just like a build Scott outlined or many others.

Being pig headed on this point will NOT help you out in any way or fashion. Nor will trying a DFO dumb *** box, either.

Once you change compression, size and cams... you will want your TIMING and AFR correct. Simple as that. Argue all you want to... it IS as simple as that.

If you are not willing to trailer the bike, and get a tune, you shouldn't be willing to do a build.

 

Those Rev-things are not what you want.
If wanting to do-it-at-home, then a DTT set-up may be what you'd like to use. Very friendly.
Scott

 

wurk_truk (et al),

I suppose it is easiest to articulate the desired end state by saying I want either low-end power or high-end horsepower. I want low-end power. If I can have that, coming on in the 2000 range and pulling up through 5500 like Scott mentioned……I’m listening.

You have confirmed what I thought – the recommended HD 1550 build with 257’s is not a viable option. Thanks for the comments on that.

When considering pieces for this build, what is the correct order to select them? Figure out what your goal is and then select a cam profile around that, followed by selecting the heads and such to compliment the cam?

I am somewhat budget constrained and I do not feel I have to hit 100+/100+. I simply want more power than an AC, cam, and exhaust alone can provide.

Thanks for your comments.




wurk_truk,

Thanks for taking the time to read this thread and respond. Being told I am an idiot wasn’t the kind of feedback I was looking for but in fairness I didn’t specify that in my first post. I suppose my posts have given the impression I was either against tuning or was trying to do this without tuning at all. I tried to keep the posts short so I left out some details that I assumed were pretty obvious. Apparently not.

I am not averse to tuning. I am quite clear on the benefits of a precise tune which is why I have the SERT on the Springer now. Dyno time with a competent operator is obviously the best and most precise way to dial in an EFI bike following major mods like what is proposed. But it is not a secret that not all Dyno tuner folk are created equal. Results vary. My point being that even if I go to a Dyno, there is no guarantee my bike will run any better than if I use a DFO or other tuner device.

It is also no secret that there are many bikes out there that are not tuned to 100% efficiency, despite the time, money, and effort spent on a Dyno tune. They are still ridden regularly and in those cases the owners are content with the performance they get from the tune they have, even that it is maybe 80-90% of full potential.

I have to disagree with your blanket statement about canned maps. To say that canned maps aren’t worth a crap is not accurate. There are countless folks out there with canned maps. Those riders are content and their bikes run well. I concede that there are subtle differences to every bike and setup that require a good tune to address. But canned maps do have their place…As a way for the average HD rider to tune his bike after mods. For example, my local HD dealer does not have a Dyno yet they do a lot of 95, 103, and 110 kits. They use canned maps to set the bikes up and the owners ride their bikes away. It’s not the most precise tune but it’s good enough to get you to 80-90% potential. You can ride your bike right away. From a financial and liability justification, if canned maps sucked so bad HD would not use them. From a warranty perspective, if you have used anything but a HD tuning product and a canned map you are unlikely to get them to cover it; if canned maps were a liability, HD would exclude them from coverage as well.

Having been in the Harley community for some time I completely understand the en vogue trend to display public hatred toward anything OEM, to include canned maps. What I don’t understand is your comment about the DFO as a ‘dumb *** box’. Why is that a bad thing? If we were discussing a carb’d bike the only tuning questions would be about what size jets to use. The DFO seems like a viable alternative given my circumstances. As I mentioned, I have no tuners in close proximity. T-Man Performance you mentioned is about 300 miles from me. I can install a DFO for much less than the cost to get the bike there and tuned. I concede I am not taking full advantage of the EFI tuning capability with a DFO or similar component. But from personal experience, it does a pretty good job and gets things close enough. As previously mentioned I have one on my Deuce now and performance is more than adequate.

But I digress. I’m not here to defend HD, canned maps, or the merits of Revtech products. I want to do a high-compression 95” engine build for my Springer and I was asking for some feedback on a couple ways I was considering doing it.

You are spot on correct that this discussion is as simple as getting my timing and AFR correct for whatever combination of components I select. So let’s stick to that.

 

Scott,

Thanks. I'm poking my head around the hillsidecycle website now.

Do they use my OEM cylinders and heads or am I swapping out for new?

 

One other question...

Best practice I want to do all this at once. But if I can't afford to go that route, what is the right order to execute? Do BB and heads now, follow-on with cams and the rest?

 

I went cams first (Wood 6), ran it for a year and a half, now doing the heads and big bore.

 

I did NOT say u were in any way an idiot. In fact, I HAD a Dyno tune, and am not happy with it. BUT, I will go get another tune from someone else.

A 'canned map' is OK for ONE of the many things you wish to do. Add a Stage 1, add a BB kit, add a cam... but to do ALL three? The canned map cannot, then, match all of the variables you end up with. Every build, and every engine ends up different. It's small things that add up. How many actual CCs does each head measure out to? Are they matched? They will NOT match from the factory, so front and rear compression will be slightly different. Same with the ports, etc on a stock OEM head. Just standard MFG process gets them close, but not exact, you see?

Deck height? Again, stock type builds, not checked and machined out to match, do not necessarily match front to back. Are you .008 in the hole? Are you .002 above the hole? Things like this.

NOW... did the bike that the canned map come from have these same variables? Do they match your bike? THINK.... all of the variables can be the opposite end of the spectrum from YOUR bike to the canned map bike.

Yes, millions of folks use canned maps. But for the most part... those are Stage 1 guys/gals. YOU are not doing a Stage 1 build. Your build will have more compression and more aggressive cam timing. These things make an engine LESS forgiving of things not being 'right'.

With the added compression and altered cam timing, you can no longer simply 'trust' the timing on a canned map. Nor the fuel AFRs. I would think that if you want to spend over $1000 on engine mods, that you would want to have your bike run at its optimum, not at its POSSIBLE worst? So, that is me calling you a dumbass, trying to educate you to the fact that the tuning device should be your FIRST purchase, and not an afterthought? You ask for advice, and when given?????

Without a good tune, on tailored to YOUR bike, with its own little problems and specs, you will not enjoy it as much as you caould, and also... do you wish to burn holes in pistons, have a ping monster, wash the cylinders from too much fuel??? Or have a nice running bike that maximizes all of it can be?

I do NOT have a problem with SE parts... but for $500 you could have YOUR heads flowing better, and be completely matched, new valve job, same CCs, etc. and be a WAY a$$ better deal all around than buying MOCO SE heads, that again... will have chambers NOT matched, etc?????

Just try, please? to open your eyes and see that everyone isn't against you. If your mind is totally made up? Why come on here and ask?

I, too, like low touring power. I have an 09 SG that crosses over the 100 mark for torque at 2500 rpm. But... to get that power, the bike has to have it's own idividual tune to exactly match its mechanical components.

Trying to save the $400 for a TTS and the $400 for a tune... that is counter productive to your stated goal. You can throw any damn thing together and get 100/100 in an area that you will not ride in, but get those same numbers down low, in YOUR riding territory, takes some work and forethought, bubba. If you simply do NOT wish to do a tune? Maybe just swap out cams, again. But... if you are not happy with your cam choices, maybe it should occur to you that a good tune would make that wake up? Tuning device should be FIRST purchase. PERIOD.

I, me??? I built the bike around the cam choice. Picked the cam, then had the correct compression and porting done to match. But there is more than one way to skin that cat.