No More Ping - FINALLY
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 310
Likes: 23
From: Sykesville, MD
No More Ping - FINALLY
The Pinging in my engine is finally gone. The only problem now is that I made three significant changes simultaneously, and therefore do not know what the cause was. In fact, I kind of doubt that any of these changes even fixed my problem.
Exhaust - Rinehart TD's switched to a D & D Fatcat
Heads - Had my heads street ported and milled by Big Boyz -
Compression increase from 9.09 : 1 to 9.52 : 1
Fuel Mgt - PCIII replaced with a Thundermax
I had tried everything recomended to me by the folks on this site in during the past twelve months without any luck.
-Went to JD's for a tune
-retarded the timing in the problems RPM/Throttle position ranges
-activated the accelerator pump on the PC III - played with it for months
After speaking to Bean at Big Boyz, I think that we both agree the pinging may have been a result of carbon build up. I removed all of the carbon from the piston tops and he of course polished the combustion chamber of the heads, thereby removing all of the carbon. None of the carbon build up was excessive, but rather normal I a told.
So, no more carbon, no more pinging, right? Only time will tell, as the carbon is sure to build up again. Herein lies the question.
Can I get some suggestions on what to do to limit carbon build up? I have heard lots of talk about fuel additives, but never really paid attention to what kinds to use, when to start using it, and how often to use it.
Exhaust - Rinehart TD's switched to a D & D Fatcat
Heads - Had my heads street ported and milled by Big Boyz -
Compression increase from 9.09 : 1 to 9.52 : 1
Fuel Mgt - PCIII replaced with a Thundermax
I had tried everything recomended to me by the folks on this site in during the past twelve months without any luck.
-Went to JD's for a tune
-retarded the timing in the problems RPM/Throttle position ranges
-activated the accelerator pump on the PC III - played with it for months
After speaking to Bean at Big Boyz, I think that we both agree the pinging may have been a result of carbon build up. I removed all of the carbon from the piston tops and he of course polished the combustion chamber of the heads, thereby removing all of the carbon. None of the carbon build up was excessive, but rather normal I a told.
So, no more carbon, no more pinging, right? Only time will tell, as the carbon is sure to build up again. Herein lies the question.
Can I get some suggestions on what to do to limit carbon build up? I have heard lots of talk about fuel additives, but never really paid attention to what kinds to use, when to start using it, and how often to use it.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,774
Likes: 2,606
From: san antonio
You can remove a lot of carbon buildup with Seafoam; follow the instruction on the can. You can also add Marvel Mystery oil to your fuel tank a couple of times a season to mnimize carbon build up.
Probably the best thing you can do is to vent your breathers to the atmosphere. Unless you have re-routed your crankcase breathers, they are currently vented to recirculate back to the combustion chamber.
Probably the best thing you can do is to vent your breathers to the atmosphere. Unless you have re-routed your crankcase breathers, they are currently vented to recirculate back to the combustion chamber.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 310
Likes: 23
From: Sykesville, MD
I would like to believe that the Thundermax was the solution, however I do not for three reasons:
1. I was told by almost everyone that a good tune would eliminate my problem. I went to who many describe as the best tuner on the east coast (Dave at JD's), and even he could not solve the problem, or even minimize it. To me, this kind of ruled out the "tune" as the solution. If the tune is ruled out, then one would also say the Thundermax would also have to be ruled out.
2. As I understand it, the Thundermax starts with a base map and then fine tunes itself and makes alterations to that base map over the course of several hundred miles. The initial base map is very general and is only based on type of exhaust, injectors and cubes. That being said, the bike would not be tuned to perfection the minute I put the Thundermax on. The pigning was completely eliminated on the very first ride. If the Thundermax truely fixed the problem, I would have expected it to take some time for the instrument to dial itself in.
3. I have a friend that was riding a carburated bike with a similiar set up and the same pinging. He installed a new set of Zippers heads and switched his S/E 203's to Redshift 575's, brand new pistons and jugs. No Thundermax, but guess what? His pingin stopped as well.
Again, I could be wrong, but everything seems to be pointing to the carbon build up. I actually hope it is the Thundermax as that would mean that the pinging shoud never come back again.
1. I was told by almost everyone that a good tune would eliminate my problem. I went to who many describe as the best tuner on the east coast (Dave at JD's), and even he could not solve the problem, or even minimize it. To me, this kind of ruled out the "tune" as the solution. If the tune is ruled out, then one would also say the Thundermax would also have to be ruled out.
2. As I understand it, the Thundermax starts with a base map and then fine tunes itself and makes alterations to that base map over the course of several hundred miles. The initial base map is very general and is only based on type of exhaust, injectors and cubes. That being said, the bike would not be tuned to perfection the minute I put the Thundermax on. The pigning was completely eliminated on the very first ride. If the Thundermax truely fixed the problem, I would have expected it to take some time for the instrument to dial itself in.
3. I have a friend that was riding a carburated bike with a similiar set up and the same pinging. He installed a new set of Zippers heads and switched his S/E 203's to Redshift 575's, brand new pistons and jugs. No Thundermax, but guess what? His pingin stopped as well.
Again, I could be wrong, but everything seems to be pointing to the carbon build up. I actually hope it is the Thundermax as that would mean that the pinging shoud never come back again.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 310
Likes: 23
From: Sykesville, MD
I went to the Sea Foam website and watched their video. It reccomends pouring this stuff directly into the throttle body, the crank case, and the gas tank. I am assuming that you guys are simply using this as a gasoline additive, or are you also using in the other holes.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,774
Likes: 2,606
From: san antonio
I went to the Sea Foam website and watched their video. It reccomends pouring this stuff directly into the throttle body, the crank case, and the gas tank. I am assuming that you guys are simply using this as a gasoline additive, or are you also using in the other holes.
Originally Posted by RKKid
I would like to believe that the Thundermax was the solution, however I do not.
Your buddies ping went away because he pulled a set of cams with an intake close of 36* and replaced them with a set of cams with an intake close of 41*.
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 141
Likes: 2
What do you have your "squishband" set at? Another way to ask this question was the piston in the whole or out of the whole by how much and what thickness head gasket did you use on assembly?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
You said your heads were milled. Most mill jobs are about 0.060 taken off. That and the gasket can take off 0.075 in. total.
This alone can help the combustion process. This with the gaskets you probably used, 0.030 multi layer, gets the squish much more active in the stock Harley head. This tightens the squish area a lot and increases turbulence. What you want. Squished up, better combustion, better burn.
Squish is exactly like it sounds, squishes the mixture into the center of the combustion chamber and away from the edges.
This alone can help the combustion process. This with the gaskets you probably used, 0.030 multi layer, gets the squish much more active in the stock Harley head. This tightens the squish area a lot and increases turbulence. What you want. Squished up, better combustion, better burn.
Squish is exactly like it sounds, squishes the mixture into the center of the combustion chamber and away from the edges.
Last edited by Old Gunny; Mar 26, 2010 at 04:34 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,166
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From: la
When I pulled my heads they had carbon also, I vented outside. I didn't have any pinging but I've had the T-Max for a while and from what I hear the timing is set on the safe side. I did have someone rework my map and add fuel & timing and it was a noticable difference.