A Little Disappointed In Dyno Numbers
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 497
Likes: 8
From: New Egypt, NJ
This setup Joe made at Cycles, Inc goes in any pipe, O2 sensor equipped or not: Remove the heat shields, drill a small hole and install a threaded insert. The Dyno's O2 sensor block gets attached via a drilled bolt made from a high strength, heat tolerant stainless alloy (since it will be constantly removed and installed). For bikes with O2 sensors equipped they stay in and fully functional during the tune, same as if the probe was stuck in the pipe. When the tune is done, the threaded insert gets plugged with a pipe plug and the heat shields go back on. It's a pretty slick setup. As of last week he only had one channel hooked up, but now that the "prototye" has been proven to work well the other is going to be ready soon. It's a pretty slick setup.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: SE Florida
One thing that has alway made me wonder about A/F monitors... a famous physicist once said something to the effect of "Observing an action always changes the results, so I've always wondered how much the presence of O2 pickups or sampling tubes skews the actual exhaust flow. One setup I looked at for permanent installation was available with longer bungs that offset the sensors clear of the exhaust flow, yet was close enough to the head of the pipe that it wouldn't get bad readings from being too close to the mixed zone (exhaust mixed with outside air)
At any rate, I feel confident that Holeshot has been doing dyno tuning long enough to know what to look for in any situation, and the A/F ratio displayed made sense.
Edited to add that Joe's setup sounds good.
At any rate, I feel confident that Holeshot has been doing dyno tuning long enough to know what to look for in any situation, and the A/F ratio displayed made sense.
Edited to add that Joe's setup sounds good.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 5
From: Hickory, NC
Fletch, just out of curiosity, how much air pressure was in your rear tire during the test shown on the charts? I filled mine to max inflation, following Dr Dyno's advice. Chris, at Holeshot cycles told me that If I had inflated it higher, the numbers would have been higher as well, and under-inflation would have reduced the numbers.
If your dyno operator was new to the process, he may not have known to check that before the run.
Do you know if he had the 02 probes inserted far enough into the exhaust, and if both were inserted equal amounts? If not, that could have contributed to erroneous readings.
If your dyno operator was new to the process, he may not have known to check that before the run.
Do you know if he had the 02 probes inserted far enough into the exhaust, and if both were inserted equal amounts? If not, that could have contributed to erroneous readings.
Also don't know how far he had the O2 probes inserted. Based on the fact that they are quite different, I would have to conclude that they were inserted far enough past the cross-over pipe to prevent significant error.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 5
From: Hickory, NC
I happened to be in the area near KJC on Thursday and decided to stop in. I needed to get a receipt for my transmission work.
While I was there, I was talking to Zack (Kendall's son) and even though KJC is a Thunderheader dealer, he prefers the D&D Fatcat. He says that for an "off the shelf" pipe they're getting the best results from the D&D exhaust.
I also talked to him about carbs while I was there. I told Zack that I thought the 45mm Mikuni was too big and that I needed to drop back to the 42mm. He agreed but went on to tell me that if I wasn't worried about horsepower numbers, the carb that would give me the best pull would be the stock 40mm CV (with some tweaking). He said that for about $100 in parts he can rebuild my stock CV and get it to where the bike will pull harder than with the 42mm Mikuni. So, now I'm in a decision to make about carbs. Not sure what I'm going to do at this point.
At any rate, I'm definitely going to take the bike to KJC for tuning. Those folks really seem to have a knack for squeezing the maximum performance out of an engine.
BTW, I got to meet Kendall Johnson while I was there. He's one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Really down to earth. I'd love to sit down and buy him a beer sometime.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: SE Florida
Holeshot speaks very highly of the D&D Boarzilla for big inch motors. Chris gave me an example of the difference on one particular engine, and it was definitely significant.
Haven't got around to scanning the dyno sheets yet, I went to a bachelor party for a gun nut friend today, which was held at a private shooting range. Guns only, no booze.
Anyway, I missed lunch, and played hard with his M16, on which I have done a good bit of work. He has a variety of different upper receivers for it, most of which I acquired or built for him, in calibers from 22LR drum fed, to 9mm suppressed, and .223 of course. I took one of my .499LWR uppers as well, that is a bear to control on full auto. At any rate, I came home completely wiped out, and still haven't recovered.
Haven't got around to scanning the dyno sheets yet, I went to a bachelor party for a gun nut friend today, which was held at a private shooting range. Guns only, no booze.
Anyway, I missed lunch, and played hard with his M16, on which I have done a good bit of work. He has a variety of different upper receivers for it, most of which I acquired or built for him, in calibers from 22LR drum fed, to 9mm suppressed, and .223 of course. I took one of my .499LWR uppers as well, that is a bear to control on full auto. At any rate, I came home completely wiped out, and still haven't recovered.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 5
From: Hickory, NC
Holeshot speaks very highly of the D&D Boarzilla for big inch motors. Chris gave me an example of the difference on one particular engine, and it was definitely significant.
Haven't got around to scanning the dyno sheets yet, I went to a bachelor party for a gun nut friend today, which was held at a private shooting range. Guns only, no booze.
Anyway, I missed lunch, and played hard with his M16, on which I have done a good bit of work. He has a variety of different upper receivers for it, most of which I acquired or built for him, in calibers from 22LR drum fed, to 9mm suppressed, and .223 of course. I took one of my .499LWR uppers as well, that is a bear to control on full auto. At any rate, I came home completely wiped out, and still haven't recovered.
Haven't got around to scanning the dyno sheets yet, I went to a bachelor party for a gun nut friend today, which was held at a private shooting range. Guns only, no booze.
Anyway, I missed lunch, and played hard with his M16, on which I have done a good bit of work. He has a variety of different upper receivers for it, most of which I acquired or built for him, in calibers from 22LR drum fed, to 9mm suppressed, and .223 of course. I took one of my .499LWR uppers as well, that is a bear to control on full auto. At any rate, I came home completely wiped out, and still haven't recovered.
Novice
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Iceland
Man, I love hearing what other folks have done to their bikes and the successes they've had with their projects. And, even though I still have some work left to do on my current project, it has me thinking about my next one. I guess when you become an adreneline junkie, it never ends. Just have to figure out what my next "fix" is going to be.
One thing I can say about my current project is that the engine builder (Jim Gutches) has gone above and beyond the call with regards to helping me sort out things that were not even his responsibility (specifically the tranny issues and the tuning done by someone else).
At the beginning of the project, I told Jim that I wanted him to build me and engine that was "scary quick" as opposed to one that was "scary fast". I'm still breaking the engine in and haven't really wrung it out yet but, it appears that he gave me exactly what I asked for. I would definitely use this guy again.
One thing I can say about my current project is that the engine builder (Jim Gutches) has gone above and beyond the call with regards to helping me sort out things that were not even his responsibility (specifically the tranny issues and the tuning done by someone else).
At the beginning of the project, I told Jim that I wanted him to build me and engine that was "scary quick" as opposed to one that was "scary fast". I'm still breaking the engine in and haven't really wrung it out yet but, it appears that he gave me exactly what I asked for. I would definitely use this guy again.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 5
From: Hickory, NC
All I can say is that Jim has continued to advise me on getting things right with my bike even after the project has been completed. And, the stuff he's been advising me on are things that he didn't even work on. But, in Jim's mind, he wanted me to be happy with the way the bike performed overall which included his engine. Jim did all of the calculations for what gear ratios and primary gear to use to best take advantage of the torque the engine would be making, even though he had no involement in the tranny gear set or primary gear installation.
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ahhwataday
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Mar 5, 2012 08:12 PM
