I took the bike into the dealer for a 95" kit. It was the only kit that was in budget so I decided to go with it. The dealer called today to tell me he had "bad news", he stated that my flywheels slipped and were out of balance and I needed a new motor. I am going tomorrow morning to look at the parts and see what my options are.

Has anyone heard of this, I know they are pressed fit and can happen but my 88A only has 22k on the motor. It is 10 yrs old but I thought it weird.

He quoted me a price of 5100 installed for a reman 88 with the 95 kit in it. Can I build a better motor through Harley for 5k ? I still don't know where im going to find the money but I really would like to ride...


Thanks for the help

 

Something smells funny, you took a perfectly good running bike in for a simple 95" install and they call you to say the wheels have shifted. Just looking at a pile of parts won't tell you much, you want them to show you the runout to prove the wheels shifted.

 

I am definitely going to have them show me the run out on the fly wheel. I don't understand how they would be able to tell just by looking in the cam basket. I would have felt a vibration or a noise from the bearings at least im sure.

Does anyone know what the run out tolerance is from factory ?

 

My 05 has a replacement/repair value of .005 in the manual. Newer bikes are running with large tolerences without issue .010 Hopefully he's only taken the cam cover off to check run out. I would button it up and ride on out of there for a second opinion before spending any money.

 

I would have expected you to feel some sort of vibration. If your looking for someone you can trust your only about 90 miles from http://www.jdscycleworks.com/ Dave is top notch.

 

Opening the cam chest is the easy way to check crankshaft runout and is often done to check if a gear drive camset can be installed. That requires a much tighter figure than the stock chain-drive setup.

I understand the TC96 and later tolerance is .012" and if they run fine (despite a lot of nonsense written on the internet about it), then a lower figure may well be fine on a TC88.

As for your question, you need a local indy, or one of the HDF tuning shops! You can buy a serious engine upgrade for the money your dealer has quoted. So if you are satisfied they are right and your engine needs a rebuild or replacement, take lots of photos of the damaged parts. I'm sure between us in here we can do better than that figure!

 

Yes yes for that kind of money's You can get one hell of great runnin motor and for less

 

The 2003 models ran a cold forged crank with roller bearings on both ends of the crank; no Timken. 2002 was the last year for hot forged cranks and the Timken crank bearing. IIRC cast cranks were introduced in 2006 and an offshore supplier started supplying them in 2007; a bad year for cranks. Unfortunately, the factory tolerance is irrelavent for warranty purposes since you are long out of warranty.

While any crank can slip, early models like yours, do not have a history of slipping. Up until 2007, runout greater than .003" was covered under the factory warranty. That tolerance increased to .012" in 2007. Funny that the tolerance increased the same year the MoCo changed to an offshore supplier.

You might not feel a vibration with .005" runout running an "A" motor but even at .005" runout, the oil pump takes a beating. When runout gets up in the .007" range, you should notice a vibration somewhere in the rpm range. More than that and fairing brackets start to break, etc.

I would insist that the setup the dial indicator and show you the runout. If the runout is .005" or less, I would continue to run it while planning an upgrade. If you can do the work yourself, you can build a better motor for about $3000-$3500 if you address the crank. If you go that route, you should consider replacing the 4.00" stroke crank with the 4.375" stroke crank; the additional cost is marginal.

If you can't do the work, $5100 out the door for a reman motor with a 95" kit may be reasonable. IIRC, to upgrade a TC88 to 95" during the reman process runs about $3500 without any discount. Allowing about 8 hours at $75 per adds another $600 and add another $200 for oil, filter and miscellaneous stuff and you are under $4500. If the $5100 includes a dyno tune, you are approaching $4800. Before agreeing to anything, you need to see a detailed, line item estimate of the job and challenge anything that you don't understand.

The advantage to the reman program is that you can finance the project. If you build a motor yourself, you pay as you go. Good luck.

 

I thought the last year of the forged crank was 02 as well as the timken bearings. I personally do not like manufacturer HD engines as you get the poorly balanced and trued crank as well as the funky rods at the wrist pinion bushing! I would think with a run out of .010 on the pinion at the cam plate would eat up the pinion bushing which is how your rods get oil and oil pump. I have seen many cranks shift and most 03 and up when they went to the POOR bearing. Timken where run from 1955 to 02 and worked very well. Harley change the POOR bearing as it was cheaper and quicker to assemble the case not because it was better. In my opinion one of the wost things Harley has done. I will NEVER get rid of my 02 because of this. Some one that knows what they are doing a shop rebuilt motor is better. Key work knows what they are doing!!!

 

2002 was the last year for the "hot" forged crank and the Timken; which is what I posted last.

Agree the Timken is better than the roller but the roller is not the cause of crank slippage and the early cranks, i.e., up to '07 had a much lower incident rate of slippage and all came from the factory with less than .003". The 120R crank sits in a roller, not a Timken and you don't hear of many crank issues with those motors.

I would not be afraid to run with up to .005" but would definitely keep an eye on it; anything more and the pinion shaft starts working on the oil pump.

I would not be concerned about the reman motor; lots of advantages for someone in the situation the OP finds himself in.
1. The factory will rebuild his motor to priginal specifications, so if the crank runout exceeds .003", they will replace the crank. They will bore his seasoned cylinder to 3.875" and any parts that exceed wear limits will be replaced.
2. The OP can finance the reman motor which is an attractive option for someone short on cash.
3. The OP can change the look of his bike with a silver/polished, all black, silver/chrome or black/chrome motor.
4. The '99-'06 reman motors are upgraded with the SE Hybrid cam plate and hydraulic tensioner hardware. Pretty sure the OP could have a set of SE203 or 204 cams installed as part of the deal.
5. The OP can increase displacement to 95" as part of reman process.
6. The reman motor will come with a one year, unlimited mileage warranty.

Sounds like reasonable option for the OP to me.