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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 07:56 AM
  #1  
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Default Going in soon.

I know this is a really long post, so I apologize. I just want to do this thing right and am still nervous about a couple of things. This is really my only resource for help on this. I have searched the forums for years, but still have a couple of questions.

So, I'm going in to my cam chest to replace the oil pump, cam plate, cams, cam chain, cam chain tensioners, lifters, tappet blocks (vivid black... only reason), and pushrods. I have taken my time to get here, and made most of my mods to the suspension, besides the basic stage 1. Recently, I decided the bike was ready for more power, so I took off the V&H 2:2 big radius and had my shop put on a V&H Competition Series 2:1, and dyno tuning. With my current setup, I am getting 80.21 hp and 91.85 tq. She is running on the hot side.

In the meantime, I have collected all the parts...
exhaust gaskets
fueling 7075 cam plate kit with new oil pump
Fuelmoto for TW555 cam kit complete
(both kits came with lifters... look identical, except one's black)
SE clutch spring
Zippers hydraulic cam tensioners
I have anti seize, blue and red loctite, and whatnot
I have collected all the tools and have two complete James gasket sets since I bought an extra one.
Oh yeah, and for $37 I thought it was worth throwing in a new chain for the cams, so I got that too.

I have been studying the service manual, and any online tutorial I can find. I have collected all the tools. According to what I see online, I am good to go... I even bought a lift.

I do however have a couple of gray areas, that concern me, because of my limited mechanical experience I may be missing something.

1) Do I have to get oil inside the camplate and oil pump before I start it? Or do I just put it together and start it a couple times with no spark plugs? I have searched the forum for details, and only catch fragments here and there. The service manual directions are all about reassembly, so there's not much there about if the cam plate should be full of oil already somehow or not. The instructions with the new oil pump instruct for liberal amount of assembly lube, etc.

2)The instructions say to that I need to pump up the lifters and I understand the instructions on how to do this... However, the last sentence of this sections says "light weight oil can be helpful"... For now, I have consistently been using Harley Synthetic oil in my motor (mostly because I can get it easy and consistently). I would assume they aren't referring to the engine oil as a light oil, so what should I use?

3)Most of the instructions for the new parts say wash and clean thoroughly... what do I wash with and is it just a matter of spraying it with something and wiping it off?

4)Should I be nervous about setting the lash on the pushrods or not? All the dudes I see on the videos make it look really easy, but I got a feeling I could get here and really f up my bike! Like I said, I am not an idiot, which gives me the courage to go in, but I'm also not an idiot, because I listen to my gut.

5)Unless I do this in my driveway at home, I won't have access to the internet while I do the work. I have access to a garage, but it's 50 miles from here and there's no electricity up there. I'm doing it in the driveway. I got a lift and internet at my apartment and two parking spaces... Is this going to take more than a really long day? I'm planning on next Thursday if the weather is good, getting outside as soon as it's light out and going at it.

6)Should I include a mechanical oil pressure gauge? Is it helpful for me to see the actual oil pressure when I am finished, or should I just keep relying on the light to go off and assume I have correct oil pressure if it does.

7)Final question. When I finish, should I bother to start it, or should I tow it to my shop and get it tuned again? I mean, if I start it, I should be able to drive it over to the shop and save myself $40 for the tow? The shops 20 minutes away. Without the computer being tuned to the new setup, would it be bad for the bike?

I have read all the instructions, and understand how to put the thing together, and I am not an idiot... when I was told by HD the speedo was going to cost $720 to buy and install (299 speedo, 4.5 hours labor, tax), and they needed the bike for probably four days, I bought the thing and had it on the bike in 20 minutes. It works. I put the Tru Trak on myself also... I rebuilt the motor on my 1967 bronco (two years). However, I ended up paying my shop, $2000 to have the wheels off, tires switched (I bought the tires), exhaust put on, (I took the other one off and bought the new one), and wheels powder coated black. I can't really afford to have someone else put this together, besides, it feels like it's important to me, this job has been calling to me for a while.
 
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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 10:04 AM
  #2  
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I did mine in my driveway in under 6 hours on my lift then rode it 50 mile to the dyno with zero issues.
 
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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 01:14 PM
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First thing I would say is that it would be nice to know what you will be working on, i.e., model and year.

1) Do I have to get oil inside the camplate and oil pump before I start it? Or do I just put it together and start it a couple times with no spark plugs? I have searched the forum for details, and only catch fragments here and there. The service manual directions are all about reassembly, so there's not much there about if the cam plate should be full of oil already somehow or not. The instructions with the new oil pump instruct for liberal amount of assembly lube, etc.
No

2)The instructions say to that I need to pump up the lifters and I understand the instructions on how to do this... However, the last sentence of this sections says "light weight oil can be helpful"... For now, I have consistently been using Harley Synthetic oil in my motor (mostly because I can get it easy and consistently). I would assume they aren't referring to the engine oil as a light oil, so what should I use?
Most lifters come "primed" with a lightweight oil. You can put the lifters in a container, cover with oil and let the "prime" over night; doesn't matter what oil you use. They will clatter on start up anyway; no worries. You will hear from guys that use needles, etc. to prime the lifters; aside from the "feel good" effect, it really doesn't do anything. A liberal application of assembly lube is more important to provide start up lubrication between the lifter and the bore it rides in.

3)Most of the instructions for the new parts say wash and clean thoroughly... what do I wash with and is it just a matter of spraying it with something and wiping it off?
Warm soapy water works every time; if an unfinished piece that can rust, a liberal application of WD40 will take care of that.

4)Should I be nervous about setting the lash on the pushrods or not? All the dudes I see on the videos make it look really easy, but I got a feeling I could get here and really f up my bike! Like I said, I am not an idiot, which gives me the courage to go in, but I'm also not an idiot, because I listen to my gut.
You have said, several times, and I quote, "I am not an idiot". So, make sure you understand the instructions and follow them. Most importantly, make sure you have the piston of the cylnder you are working on at TDC on the compression stroke.

5)Unless I do this in my driveway at home, I won't have access to the internet while I do the work. I have access to a garage, but it's 50 miles from here and there's no electricity up there. I'm doing it in the driveway. I got a lift and internet at my apartment and two parking spaces... Is this going to take more than a really long day? I'm planning on next Thursday if the weather is good, getting outside as soon as it's light out and going at it.
A dealership allows 4 hours for the job; it will take you longer. This being your first time, don't count on finishing in a day although it is certainly doable. You cannot forget that Murhphy's Law is in effect and since this is your first attempt there it is highly likely that you have overlooked a tool that may be required or a part that you forgot to order or you encounter a situation that you are not sure about and require affirmation from someone that has been there/done that.

6)Should I include a mechanical oil pressure gauge? Is it helpful for me to see the actual oil pressure when I am finished, or should I just keep relying on the light to go off and assume I have correct oil pressure if it does.
A mechanical guage is nice to have but just adds to the scope of the work you have to do which means more time and another chance for Murhphy's Law to bite you in the a$$. Personally, I would wait on the pressure gauge until I had the bike running and tuned; you can add the gauge any time.

7)Final question. When I finish, should I bother to start it, or should I tow it to my shop and get it tuned again? I mean, if I start it, I should be able to drive it over to the shop and save myself $40 for the tow? The shops 20 minutes away. Without the computer being tuned to the new setup, would it be bad for the bike?
Start it up, let the valve train clatter and pump up, listen for any weird noises and look for oil leaks. If all is good, ride it to the shop for a tune.

One thing you have not mentioned is upgrading the inner cam bearings. Something that you should do while you are in the cam chest and an operation that will require tools that you probably don't have.
 
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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 04:35 PM
  #4  
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Sorry, I thought my bike was in my signature, it's and 09 FXDF Fat Bob. I do have the inner cam bearings, and I do have the tool for that too.

Thank you for your advice.
 
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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 04:37 PM
  #5  
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Most lifters come "primed" with a lightweight oil. You can put the lifters in a container, cover with oil and let the "prime" over night; doesn't matter what oil you use. They will clatter on start up anyway; no worries. You will hear from guys that use needles, etc. to prime the lifters; aside from the "feel good" effect, it really doesn't do anything. A liberal application of assembly lube is more important to provide start up lubrication between the lifter and the bore it rides in.



So, if I don't prime the lifters, do I still have to wait for the pushrods to "bleed down"?
 
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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 05:12 PM
  #6  
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Spin it with no plugs until oil light goes out, then install plugs and run it. Also, you will need assembly lube. Use that liberally on cams, chains, etc. Buy a dozen cans of brake clean. Also, go to Walmart and buy a few bundles of microfiber towels. These do not shed like a cotton towel will. Clean all the parts you take off with brake clean, especially INSIDE those new pushrod tubes and pushrods, themselves. I always find a ton of crap inside pushrods. You should have a nice 3/8" inch pound wrench... like a CDI, NOT one from Harbor freight.

Don't worry at all about oiling lifters. Its an easier technique for some folks to go to the bottom and adjust up.

What brand of tuner do you have? It will not hurt you to ride to the tuning shop (I do NOT recommend this on a top end... but just cams? Yup) Just ride nice and easy... u will be fine with that. And, by all means you should start the bike.

The biggest thing is this... the cleaner things are, the better it will turn out for you.
 

Last edited by wurk_truk; Aug 9, 2013 at 05:20 PM.
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Old Aug 9, 2013 | 07:43 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by davidnewtonparr
So, if I don't prime the lifters, do I still have to wait for the pushrods to "bleed down"?
That will depend on the lifter. You will feel some resistance after the lash has been removed and you start adjusting. After you tighten the jam nut, try to rotate the pushrods between thumb and forefinger. If you can rotate them, move to the next cylinder but if you can't rotate them, don't rotate the crank until you can.
 
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Old Aug 10, 2013 | 10:58 PM
  #8  
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I got most of it done today... Tomorrow I have to reinstall the lifter blocks, pushrods and pushrod tubes.

I ran into some trouble removing the lifter blocks. The only thing I could use to remove the four bolts up close to the jugs was a regular 3/16 allen wrench and a lot of patience. Tomorrow I'm going to put them back in... I can use the same technique to get them in, I am going to modify my allen wrench so that it fits better. However, the only torque value I can be sure of getting back there is "PFT"... Should be alright? What technique or tool do others use to get this part torqued when you are not removing the heads and jugs?

Thank You
 
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Old Aug 11, 2013 | 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by davidnewtonparr
I got most of it done today... Tomorrow I have to reinstall the lifter blocks, pushrods and pushrod tubes.

I ran into some trouble removing the lifter blocks. The only thing I could use to remove the four bolts up close to the jugs was a regular 3/16 allen wrench and a lot of patience. Tomorrow I'm going to put them back in... I can use the same technique to get them in, I am going to modify my allen wrench so that it fits better. However, the only torque value I can be sure of getting back there is "PFT"... Should be alright? What technique or tool do others use to get this part torqued when you are not removing the heads and jugs?

Thank You
Assume PFT meand torque by feel? That works. Just don't over tighten, if you get a little leak, tighten the bolt a bit more. I have replaced those fasteners with 12 point headed fasteners but still torque the inside ones by feel.
 
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Old Aug 11, 2013 | 04:37 PM
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Go to Sears. Get a LONG allen on a 1/4" drive with a BALL on the end. The you CAN torque those inside bolts. Same with intake bolts. Won't be perfect torque, but it will be close enough for an HD. Completely eliminates using that damn wrench by hand.
 
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