Went Down - Tar Snakes
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 1,488
From: SW Washington State
Not unusual for an accident or incident to seem instantaneous. There's no middle ground between rolling and sliding. Sometimes instinct saves you before you have time to think, but the right instinct comes from experience and/or practice; how many riders get that for slides, unless they've had dirt bike experience - I'm convinced my dirt bike days have saved me on pavement a few times. Did a two wheel drift on a corner on fresh asphalt a few years ago on a sportster, had just enough time to think this is going to hurt before recovering. I suspect without the hundreds of power slides on dirt, it would have hurt.
My stiff Harley boot may have helped, too, I'm not so proud I won't put a foot down when things get a bit out of control.
My stiff Harley boot may have helped, too, I'm not so proud I won't put a foot down when things get a bit out of control.
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
I just took a ride on the worst 5 miles of road in the country between Superior and Globe, AZ. I don't know if these things were considered tar snakes, more like melted asphalt about 2 feet wide. My front tire tried to slide out from under me on more than 1 occasion. They were like a patch of ice and you really had to thread the needle to avoid them.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 220
Likes: 13
From: Farmington Hills, MI
So heres a pic of the spot where I lost traction on a 15 mph turn, without throttle or brake....And there are roads nearby that are far worse than this in density of tar filled cracks....YES MICHIGAN, where the infrastructure looks like ancient ruins!!
You can see where my tire began to slide near the middle-bottom of picture, then a parallel scrap on the cement once the bike and I fell over.w
But, most importantly, I am trying to understand if this is a fluke or if it is really this easy to fall on tar snakes?? I truly was going 15 to at most 20 mph, and took a leisurely right turn without throttle or brake. As soon as the bike began to enter turn , it immediately went down, like on ice. I am still somewhat stunned and am not sure what to do differently.
You can see where my tire began to slide near the middle-bottom of picture, then a parallel scrap on the cement once the bike and I fell over.w
But, most importantly, I am trying to understand if this is a fluke or if it is really this easy to fall on tar snakes?? I truly was going 15 to at most 20 mph, and took a leisurely right turn without throttle or brake. As soon as the bike began to enter turn , it immediately went down, like on ice. I am still somewhat stunned and am not sure what to do differently.
Stage II
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: W NY
Tar snakes are deadly, even for a highly experienced rider, I know because my son was killed by a 15" wide tar strip down the middle of I-90, and I have proven it in court. My young grandchildren are now worth more than I am. I also know of 2 other local deaths that there is a 99% chance were caused by misapplied tar sealant.Unfortunately neither of their families went to court.
I am now working to advocate proper use of tar sealant, all the examples talked about here are about IMPROPERLY applied tar sealant according to most states DOT regulations, and are against the application instructions of the manufacture of the materials and equipment.
The manufacturer instructions call for the tar to be squeegeed into the crack with a V shaped tool, most DOT's specify that the overbanding (what we call the tar snake) should exceed 2" wide and 1/8" thick. Most states also specify that only certain types of cracks should be filled this way, most exclude its use on Spider cracks or if there are a high number of cracks on the pavement.
It is important to remember the excess is WASTE, proper sealing only requires the crack to be filled with NO overbanding. Check your states DOT regulations and write the DOT, both state and local, along with your states transportation directors and elected representatives.
In my research I found that there have been other deaths attributed to excess tar, but few seem to pursue legal recourse, I am not a litigious person, but once I saw my son’s death was preventable if the NYS thruway authority did their job correctly, not only on correct application, but there had been 6 prior Moto accidents on the same streatch of I-90 in 2 years prior (when the material was applied), all caused while the riders were simply trying to change lanes on wet pavement.
Three of the accident reports specifically listed the tar as the cause by the troopers at the scene, but the accident investigators for the Thruway authority totally ignored that information, and flat out stated in court, that they ignored it because they thought the Trooper and riders were WRONG.
Experts testified that the tar when wet has the equivalent coefficient of friction of hard packed snow, if it was patches of snow purposely put on the pavement, someone would have their a$$ kicked, or in jail. Essentially that is what they ARE doing! And this hazard isn't like a pothole of gravel kicked out, and it is purposely applied in a dangerous manner.
The next death or serious accident might be a friend, relative or even you. I will be happy to provide information on this accident, and now we have an example of what this continued incompetence will cost them, more ears should be listening. Feel free to contact me if you need information on the case.
Everyone should write the DOT, both state and local, along with your states transportation directors and elected representatives. The life it may save could be yours!
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 235
Likes: 8
Want to get their attention, tell them there are a couple young children in NY state that are millionaires due to misapplication or the tar sealant.
Tar snakes are deadly, even for a highly experienced rider, I know because my son was killed by a 15" wide tar strip down the middle of I-90, and I have proven it in court. My young grandchildren are now worth more than I am. I also know of 2 other local deaths that there is a 99% chance were caused by misapplied tar sealant.Unfortunately neither of their families went to court.
I am now working to advocate proper use of tar sealant, all the examples talked about here are about IMPROPERLY applied tar sealant according to most states DOT regulations, and are against the application instructions of the manufacture of the materials and equipment.
The manufacturer instructions call for the tar to be squeegeed into the crack with a V shaped tool, most DOT's specify that the overbanding (what we call the tar snake) should exceed 2" wide and 1/8" thick. Most states also specify that only certain types of cracks should be filled this way, most exclude its use on Spider cracks or if there are a high number of cracks on the pavement.
It is important to remember the excess is WASTE, proper sealing only requires the crack to be filled with NO overbanding. Check your states DOT regulations and write the DOT, both state and local, along with your states transportation directors and elected representatives.
In my research I found that there have been other deaths attributed to excess tar, but few seem to pursue legal recourse, I am not a litigious person, but once I saw my sons death was preventable if the NYS thruway authority did their job correctly, not only on correct application, but there had been 6 prior Moto accidents on the same streatch of I-90 in 2 years prior (when the material was applied), all caused while the riders were simply trying to change lanes on wet pavement.
Three of the accident reports specifically listed the tar as the cause by the troopers at the scene, but the accident investigators for the Thruway authority totally ignored that information, and flat out stated in court, that they ignored it because they thought the Trooper and riders were WRONG.
Experts testified that the tar when wet has the equivalent coefficient of friction of hard packed snow, if it was patches of snow purposely put on the pavement, someone would have their a$$ kicked, or in jail. Essentially that is what they ARE doing! And this hazard isn't like a pothole of gravel kicked out, and it is purposely applied in a dangerous manner.
The next death or serious accident might be a friend, relative or even you. I will be happy to provide information on this accident, and now we have an example of what this continued incompetence will cost them, more ears should be listening. Feel free to contact me if you need information on the case.
Everyone should write the DOT, both state and local, along with your states transportation directors and elected representatives. The life it may save could be yours!
Tar snakes are deadly, even for a highly experienced rider, I know because my son was killed by a 15" wide tar strip down the middle of I-90, and I have proven it in court. My young grandchildren are now worth more than I am. I also know of 2 other local deaths that there is a 99% chance were caused by misapplied tar sealant.Unfortunately neither of their families went to court.
I am now working to advocate proper use of tar sealant, all the examples talked about here are about IMPROPERLY applied tar sealant according to most states DOT regulations, and are against the application instructions of the manufacture of the materials and equipment.
The manufacturer instructions call for the tar to be squeegeed into the crack with a V shaped tool, most DOT's specify that the overbanding (what we call the tar snake) should exceed 2" wide and 1/8" thick. Most states also specify that only certain types of cracks should be filled this way, most exclude its use on Spider cracks or if there are a high number of cracks on the pavement.
It is important to remember the excess is WASTE, proper sealing only requires the crack to be filled with NO overbanding. Check your states DOT regulations and write the DOT, both state and local, along with your states transportation directors and elected representatives.
In my research I found that there have been other deaths attributed to excess tar, but few seem to pursue legal recourse, I am not a litigious person, but once I saw my sons death was preventable if the NYS thruway authority did their job correctly, not only on correct application, but there had been 6 prior Moto accidents on the same streatch of I-90 in 2 years prior (when the material was applied), all caused while the riders were simply trying to change lanes on wet pavement.
Three of the accident reports specifically listed the tar as the cause by the troopers at the scene, but the accident investigators for the Thruway authority totally ignored that information, and flat out stated in court, that they ignored it because they thought the Trooper and riders were WRONG.
Experts testified that the tar when wet has the equivalent coefficient of friction of hard packed snow, if it was patches of snow purposely put on the pavement, someone would have their a$$ kicked, or in jail. Essentially that is what they ARE doing! And this hazard isn't like a pothole of gravel kicked out, and it is purposely applied in a dangerous manner.
The next death or serious accident might be a friend, relative or even you. I will be happy to provide information on this accident, and now we have an example of what this continued incompetence will cost them, more ears should be listening. Feel free to contact me if you need information on the case.
Everyone should write the DOT, both state and local, along with your states transportation directors and elected representatives. The life it may save could be yours!
Do you have any thoughts, advise on this? Has anyone considered class-action related to this?? It seems like road tar is an underestimated danger to motorcyclists. I tried a PM without success.
Thanks.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 13,456
Likes: 10,452
From: Sunshine State
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
6 Weirdest Harley-Davidsons Ever Sold to the Public
Verdad Gallardo
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window
Verdad Gallardo
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,286
Likes: 3,431
From: Idaho Panhandle
I just took a ride on the worst 5 miles of road in the country between Superior and Globe, AZ. I don't know if these things were considered tar snakes, more like melted asphalt about 2 feet wide. My front tire tried to slide out from under me on more than 1 occasion. They were like a patch of ice and you really had to thread the needle to avoid them.