Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 2
From: Windsor, CO
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
You need to call the MSF national office on that one.
As for needing a doctor's note, I'm not sure most 30 year olds can push a motorcycle 150 yards uphill much less a 58 year old with your physical ailments.
I'd say that you should contact MSF and find another course. Depending on the state you're in then you can simply take the exam. My son took it before he took the MSF course and actually passed it the first time. Don't ride your new bike, though. Borrow a smaller bike to practice on and to the take the test on. A 125 or 250 is about the right size since they are a lot easier to maneuver.
As for needing a doctor's note, I'm not sure most 30 year olds can push a motorcycle 150 yards uphill much less a 58 year old with your physical ailments.
I'd say that you should contact MSF and find another course. Depending on the state you're in then you can simply take the exam. My son took it before he took the MSF course and actually passed it the first time. Don't ride your new bike, though. Borrow a smaller bike to practice on and to the take the test on. A 125 or 250 is about the right size since they are a lot easier to maneuver.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,477
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
ORIGINAL: Texian
Glad to say I got it 44 years ago and never gave it up.
There really wasn't so much attitude as being totally inflexable.They said something concerning State requirements and they had no choice.
Glad to say I got it 44 years ago and never gave it up.
There really wasn't so much attitude as being totally inflexable.They said something concerning State requirements and they had no choice.
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
I took the MSF course in May. Just like dash8dvr, they made us push the bikes the length of the course, about 50 yds. Do a half circle to face in the direction we came, and push it back the length again. I have no idea why this is part of the course. There's no way I'm pushing my Deuce more that a few feet in my garage or into a parking stall, and definitely not uphill. If it breaks down, it's sitting exactly where it broke down until a tow truck comes to get it.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
I'm not unloading on you Paniolo, just the facts as they have been listed.
After the "Final Evaluation" the bikes are left in the lot where they finish. Either the riders push or straddle walk the bike back to the storage area, or the rider coaches ride them back to the storage area one at a time. Once again, if the riders are done with the course, then there is NO insurance coverage to allow them to ride the bikes anywhere else,Period.
At least that is what I was told, and that's how we do it on the MSF range I work at.
Mark
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 0
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
What the hell does pushing a motorcycle have to do with learning how to ride one?
If any of my bikes stop running, I would only push it if it was impeding the flow of traffic and or a safety hazard.
If I'm frustrated with it, I'll push it off of a cliff!
If any of my bikes stop running, I would only push it if it was impeding the flow of traffic and or a safety hazard.
If I'm frustrated with it, I'll push it off of a cliff!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,391
Likes: 10
From:
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
I am a xxxxxl guy. I can push my bike anywhere. That being said, why would I want to? If I happen to break down, I would use the cell phone, throw a chew in, and wait. I took my course at 14 (now 35). That was a lot of bourbonago, but I don't remember pushing the bike anywhere. It does seem to me, however, that this do it or your out mentality is not what I would expect. You pay, in my mind, big bucks for the course. And for them to make you feel old, out of shape, or feeble, is crap. Some people have those big @ss trikes. How many of us could push one of those suckers around? Or what about the smaller people? A buddy of mine has an OL that rides a sport bike. She can't even get my bike off the jiffy stand, let alone, push it. She, however, is a great rider. I don't get it
ORIGINAL: thrillseeker
I ddin't have to push the bike in my course. We had to "walk" the bike while massaging the clutch - engine was running. We were on a flat course the entire time.
I see the other points of view mentioned that perhaps you should get a Dr's OK to ride - but it isn't often you need to push the bike up a hill for a long distance.
Perhaps contacting MSF directly and asking them for their input?
edit: I don't think what they had you do is right... I keep thinking about this and the more I do, the more I have to say BS. There are an awful lot of XXXL guys out there riding (and XXXXL) and without any respitory problems I venture to guess they would have a problem with this as well. I mean no offense to the large folks out there.
I ddin't have to push the bike in my course. We had to "walk" the bike while massaging the clutch - engine was running. We were on a flat course the entire time.
I see the other points of view mentioned that perhaps you should get a Dr's OK to ride - but it isn't often you need to push the bike up a hill for a long distance.
Perhaps contacting MSF directly and asking them for their input?
edit: I don't think what they had you do is right... I keep thinking about this and the more I do, the more I have to say BS. There are an awful lot of XXXL guys out there riding (and XXXXL) and without any respitory problems I venture to guess they would have a problem with this as well. I mean no offense to the large folks out there.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
Guys, don't shoot me, I'm just the messanger, LOL!!!
I agree with a lot of what you all said. For the BRC, the bikes are all 125 - 250ccs so they are pretty light. Still, someone with physical limitations would struggle to push those back and forth, We live in a very litigious world these days, and someone is always looking to sue someone else. So when it comes to insurance regulations, every one is a stickler.
One thing I take issue with is the fact that the MSF does not teach the proper way to step off and away from a falling bike, and how to pick it up. When I asked a rider coach why they don't teach these things, he said "because if you do everything we tell you to, you'll never drop a bike". We all know that's BS. They don't teach it because it gives "the wrong impression" to students, and because insurance companies won't cover an intentional drop. But the fact of the matter is folks do get injured from parking lot drops, and improperly picking up a bike. Not major injuries, but twisted ankles, scraped shins, sprained wrists, that kind of stuff.
Anyway, that's my rant.
Mark
I agree with a lot of what you all said. For the BRC, the bikes are all 125 - 250ccs so they are pretty light. Still, someone with physical limitations would struggle to push those back and forth, We live in a very litigious world these days, and someone is always looking to sue someone else. So when it comes to insurance regulations, every one is a stickler.
One thing I take issue with is the fact that the MSF does not teach the proper way to step off and away from a falling bike, and how to pick it up. When I asked a rider coach why they don't teach these things, he said "because if you do everything we tell you to, you'll never drop a bike". We all know that's BS. They don't teach it because it gives "the wrong impression" to students, and because insurance companies won't cover an intentional drop. But the fact of the matter is folks do get injured from parking lot drops, and improperly picking up a bike. Not major injuries, but twisted ankles, scraped shins, sprained wrists, that kind of stuff.
Anyway, that's my rant.
Mark
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Joe Kucinski
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 691
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From:
RE: Bad MSF ??? Is This Right ???
Like some of the others, we were teamed up in 2's. One pushed the other about 30 yards or so(to learn braking/balance) then we turned the bike around, and it was the other guys/gals turn to push. Right ot wrong, I don't know, however, I felt like it was warranted, just because you don't want a newbe that's NEVER been on a bike before trying to figure out a clutch and riding on his own without any instruction (i.e. riding a bike 150 yard to a different location). I do agree that 150 yard is excessive. I don't think the course will refund any money though, but I hope you're able to, sounds like you got a raw deal to me. I think the learning environment is better when your instructors will talk to you and treat you like a person, rather then acting likea freaking drill instructor. There's a time and place to act like a jackass, and on the MSF pad isn't one of them. If they did have a good reason, they owed you and explanation as to what it is, not "just the way it is".