Am I being unreasonable or is Harley?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,510
Likes: 13,768
From: Pa.
Unfortunately they weren't there when this happened, Everything works fine when they try it and without it doing it so the tech can confirm the problem there's not much they can do. It's not just Harley, no company is going to start replacing parts under warranty that they cannot confirm a problem with. It sucks for you I know, but that's how it works.
On my Silverado, the info screen kept going blank. I told the dealership about it (it was a known problem) but I also told them I'm in no hurry until you have an absolute fix, but I wanted it documented so that when I run out of warrantee, I still expect it to be fixed. They did try a couple of things like clearing the memory and replacing a few cables, but finally replaced the whole unit even after it was out of warrantee. They NEVER got it to go black while at the shop.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 157,417
Likes: 56,984
From: Michigan 15 Minutes East Of Hell
Yep ... For what it takes to get a lawyer involved you can trade it in on a new one and more than cover the loss ... Trading because after all there is nothing wrong with it, right ??
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,510
Likes: 13,768
From: Pa.
These threads make my head hurt.
Simply put: the dealer can't fix what they can't duplicate. Are you willing to leave the bike with them for as long as takes, allowing techs to ride it home, to lunch, whatever, until they can duplicate it? The code isn't definitive enough to try a new part. The dealer doesn't get reimbursed from MoCo for replacing parts that are good. They are required to send all replaced parts to MoCo for evaluation. If no problem is found, the dealer eats the entire repair.
I defend dealers a lot because I know what they are up against. I know how the manufacturer warranty game works. It isn't easy for them, either. They want to make your bike right, I assure you. However, protocol must be followed. Can't tell you how many times I ran up against this very scenario as a Service Manager. You want to help the customer, but you're hamstrung.
Ask them if they are willing to keep the bike until they can replicate the problem. If you're not willing, that's on you. If they aren't willing, that's on them.
Simply put: the dealer can't fix what they can't duplicate. Are you willing to leave the bike with them for as long as takes, allowing techs to ride it home, to lunch, whatever, until they can duplicate it? The code isn't definitive enough to try a new part. The dealer doesn't get reimbursed from MoCo for replacing parts that are good. They are required to send all replaced parts to MoCo for evaluation. If no problem is found, the dealer eats the entire repair.
I defend dealers a lot because I know what they are up against. I know how the manufacturer warranty game works. It isn't easy for them, either. They want to make your bike right, I assure you. However, protocol must be followed. Can't tell you how many times I ran up against this very scenario as a Service Manager. You want to help the customer, but you're hamstrung.
Ask them if they are willing to keep the bike until they can replicate the problem. If you're not willing, that's on you. If they aren't willing, that's on them.
I'd start out nice but they would soon figure out that they'd be WAY further ahead with me to just change the switch.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 11,757
From: Omaha,NE
BS. So they're basically saying we don't believe you. If you give them the code and they didn't replace the module/switch just because they couldn't get it to act up just ain't right...shorts act like that.
On my Silverado, the info screen kept going blank. I told the dealership about it (it was a known problem) but I also told them I'm in no hurry until you have an absolute fix, but I wanted it documented so that when I run out of warrantee, I still expect it to be fixed. They did try a couple of things like clearing the memory and replacing a few cables, but finally replaced the whole unit even after it was out of warrantee. They NEVER got it to go black while at the shop.
On my Silverado, the info screen kept going blank. I told the dealership about it (it was a known problem) but I also told them I'm in no hurry until you have an absolute fix, but I wanted it documented so that when I run out of warrantee, I still expect it to be fixed. They did try a couple of things like clearing the memory and replacing a few cables, but finally replaced the whole unit even after it was out of warrantee. They NEVER got it to go black while at the shop.
So it would be all his fault if he doesn't allow someone (anyone) to ride his bike maybe hundreds of miles, just so they could see the code that he told them?
I'd start out nice but they would soon figure out that they'd be WAY further ahead with me to just change the switch.
I'd start out nice but they would soon figure out that they'd be WAY further ahead with me to just change the switch.
I used to diagnose stuff like this. The tech has to replicate it, maybe find a trigger. It isn't that they don't believe the customer. They do. That still doesn't give them a path to repair. A tech might take a piece of test equipment on each ride so he can test on the road should something happen. That's how it's done. It isn't about the code; the code is only a part of the path. It's too broad to pinpoint.
Folks just don't understand that there is no magic crystal ball when it comes to diagnosis. It is a complete process.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 22,999
Likes: 11,439
First what are you doing jacking with it. Now dealer can put it on you and they will.
You gone from a defective new bike ,not uncommon for HD. To dead and lawsuit.
You already set your self up for fail. if you know it is unsafe and road it anyway it on you.
You gone from a defective new bike ,not uncommon for HD. To dead and lawsuit.
You already set your self up for fail. if you know it is unsafe and road it anyway it on you.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 481
From: SE PA
Appreciate all the input. It’s good to see points from both sides, although I still feel they should continue to troubleshoot. I was pissed about this yesterday, but I now have a clear head after letting things marinate a bit.
I’ll see what comes out of today’s conversation with the moco. If the result is the same, I will likely bring the bike home and replace the switch module out of pocket. Since this is a safety issue, it just isn’t worth the risk to keep riding it as-is and playing a cat and mouse game with the dealer. It’s annoying and the principle of it will bother me, but I feel it’s the right decision.
I’ll see what comes out of today’s conversation with the moco. If the result is the same, I will likely bring the bike home and replace the switch module out of pocket. Since this is a safety issue, it just isn’t worth the risk to keep riding it as-is and playing a cat and mouse game with the dealer. It’s annoying and the principle of it will bother me, but I feel it’s the right decision.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,751
Likes: 459
From: Here and now
Unfortunately they weren't there when this happened, Everything works fine when they try it and without it doing it so the tech can confirm the problem there's not much they can do. It's not just Harley, no company is going to start replacing parts under warranty that they cannot confirm a problem with. It sucks for you I know, but that's how it works.
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 279
Likes: 315
From: Southern Vancouver Island
Having been a former automotive tech, nothing is more frustrating than attempting to diagnose intermittent electrical faults. Best case scenario is that something fails and leaves a "hard" fault code which means when the tech hooks up the diagnostic machine, the fault remains and is easy to diagnose.
With "soft" fault codes as in this case, something failed and triggered the fault code but then magically started working again. Sometimes it is a faulty module, sometimes it can be as simple as a wiring connector not fully seated somewhere in the 500 miles of wiring. Usually the fix is something simple once located but it can be a long, painful process to locate and eliminate the cause of the fault. Leaving the bike with the dealer and allowing them to ride until they can replicate the problem is about the only solution.
I feel for the OP as this is especially frustrating on a new motorcycle but it is likely not an easy fix for anyone involved.
With "soft" fault codes as in this case, something failed and triggered the fault code but then magically started working again. Sometimes it is a faulty module, sometimes it can be as simple as a wiring connector not fully seated somewhere in the 500 miles of wiring. Usually the fix is something simple once located but it can be a long, painful process to locate and eliminate the cause of the fault. Leaving the bike with the dealer and allowing them to ride until they can replicate the problem is about the only solution.
I feel for the OP as this is especially frustrating on a new motorcycle but it is likely not an easy fix for anyone involved.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,510
Likes: 13,768
From: Pa.
No company is going to allow their dealers to throw parts at a warranty problem. It's just the way it is.
I used to diagnose stuff like this. The tech has to replicate it, maybe find a trigger. It isn't that they don't believe the customer. They do. That still doesn't give them a path to repair. A tech might take a piece of test equipment on each ride so he can test on the road should something happen. That's how it's done. It isn't about the code; the code is only a part of the path. It's too broad to pinpoint.
Folks just don't understand that there is no magic crystal ball when it comes to diagnosis. It is a complete process.
I used to diagnose stuff like this. The tech has to replicate it, maybe find a trigger. It isn't that they don't believe the customer. They do. That still doesn't give them a path to repair. A tech might take a piece of test equipment on each ride so he can test on the road should something happen. That's how it's done. It isn't about the code; the code is only a part of the path. It's too broad to pinpoint.
Folks just don't understand that there is no magic crystal ball when it comes to diagnosis. It is a complete process.
I did stop by the dealership once before getting this done and had a pleasant heart to heart with the service manager, letting him know that my warranty was up, but it was now time to get this fixed. A week later it was fixed and I haven't had the problem since.