As we are all forced to use the vast dealership networks around the world. Unless your OCONUS, when purchasing from the Motor Company direct.

We all have seen it. The fluff and padding, or even worse the notorious DSRP scam. I live in the southwestern Ohio area. I’ve also worked for several dealerships in Ohio and Tennessee. I’m very familiar with these sinister practices that the Motor Company allows and turns a blind eye to. Allow me to be entirely more specific with the corrupt tactics. By the end of this you should be an expert in recognizing the following red flags.

1. DSRP (Dealer Suggested Retail Price) these are the typical duesh dealers without price tags on bikes. Red flag anytime you don’t see a price online or on the physical bike, common sleazy tactic.

They don’t want you to know the price until they can get you into a “sit.” More on that later.The first question out of your mouth should be: “are you a DSRP or MSRP dealer?”

If they say DSRP, run. This means, they view customers or loyal brand supporters as “ATMs” not people. I’ve heard sales managers say it to the point of exhaustion, when the phone rings or someone walks in the door.

“Hey the ATM is ringing” or “go talk to the ATM that just walked in.” These dealerships are dangerous and rarely have more than a handful of repeat clients, unless they have a particular salesperson they trust. Which is another sad and unfortunate circumstance. Trust built on ruthless scamming.

2. Up charging for fluff: “administrative fees, title and documentation fees, set up, freight, ect. Let’s get something straight right off the rip, HD does not require any of these fees. In fact, HD reimburses Each and Every dealer nationwide for freight/ shipping costs at the end of the year. Fact. See Matt Laidlaw’s YouTube episode on buying a new Harley-Davidson. Where he calls these tactics the biggest scams in the industry.

The administration fee?

What is it? It’s fluff, they’re charging you for efforts of a sales manager to list the bike or hang a tag. This is complete and utter BS.

Set up fee, what is it?

This is the maybe 5-10 minutes it takes the tech to use a Phillips screw driver to install a couple screws that holds the windshield in place and check the fluid levels. (How do I know? Worked at a dealership and am close friends with several master techs).

The techs will usually put a mile or two on new bikes by riding down the street weather permitted, to ensure they’re running and shifting properly in every gear. The process is minimal and shouldn’t have a charge attached.

Title fee, what is it?

Okay, so this is something that dealerships have that only automotive/ motorcycle dealers have access to. They have the ability to print temporary tags through the state. How does this work? Much like a drivers education certificate of completion, they buy a block from the state. Like T000001-T000100, they pay anywhere from $5.00-$25.00 depending on the state. Drivers education certificates are the same. You eat the cost of unissued or expired paper. It takes only a few minutes to print one off or to purchase more. Super easy process that they’re charging upwards of $250.00. Scam.

What about the title? The title doesn’t come from them. They don’t issue titles. Only the BMV/DMV from the state can issue titles on new vehicles. If it’s used. They should already have it from the previous owner. All they do is email or log into the BMV website for dealers and advise them of the VIN number, make, year and model, verify that the tax was paid or in some cases pay the tax for you so the BMV can issue the title. The title is then sent to the lean holder where it is held until the debt is satisfied. Then it’s released to the owner. Again, not a complicated process, it takes about as much time as ordering a pizza from an app on your phone, except the pizza place isn’t charging you a administration and set up fee for your pie.

*** Here’s the problem, you can and have the ability if you paid in full to take a bill of sale to the BMV/DMV and pay the tax yourself and have a title issued to you for around $25.00 plus the tax of the motorcycle. There is no law to prevent this. The dealer may tell you they”legally,” can’t or they aren’t allowed. To that I would say, okay.. show me the law and the fine print in the contract that prevents it. They won’t be able to do that because it doesn’t exist. Perks of reading the fine print. Take your time on that.

Tax? Yeah, so there’s no way out of that. Sorry. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.

Added security or fraud prevention fee? This is dealerspeek for we are ripping you off for something you didn’t want or need, but we’re greedy and like your money more than you as a person so we don’t care.

This comes in the form of a GPS tag, if they even actually installed it. Or the micro dots. Where to begin on what a scam this is. First off, 100% of patrol officers don’t know what a micro dot is. Ask any Police Officer you next time you see one. Unless the vehicle is actively being tracked, by satellite or Flock Cameras or a random vin search by a LEO. She gone, along with her parts. Even if the parts have microdots, the odds of someone knowing what that is or where to report it is unlikely.

The “Micro Dots,” are essentially thousands of tiny paper dots with red scantron style numbers on them. The paper dots are about 3x the size of pin tip. They come in a little plastic canister with a bottle of commercial grade rubber cement. The sales person, who isn’t trained on this usually is forced to apply it to the “expensive parts,” of the motorcycle.

So let’s brake this down, you now are forced to pay around $500.00 for Herbert the Hillbilly to smear rubber cement covered in paper particles all over the bottom of your bran new $20-$30-40-$50,000 bike and shiny custom/ stock painted parts. Instructions indicated to not apply to any parts that generate heat but… they would anyway. Let’s not forget what happens to glue when engines and exhausts get hot.

Yeah, let that marinate for a moment…

Finance Manager date?

The most intimate experience you can have with your clothes on. These guys are generally the most corrupt and are read in on all the scams. I’ve never worked with one wasn’t pushing an agenda. If you are forced to interact with them, which, let’s be honest, even if you pay in cash, be assured, you still have a forced date with them in the works. Now that they’ve squeezed you dry with the “paper,” proposals where you’re forced to sign (why? Purely psychological, it shows intent and so they know they’ve got you in the cross hairs) (you only need to sign the finance document or anything you buy on credit or for warranty. Everything else isn’t legally required, and they know this).

The finance managers job is to sell you what if scenario BS by scare tactics. Your insurance provider will have the same options and if you have a roadside assistance provider, you have more than you need. But the want your hard earned money so they are going to pitch you why you need this, because of how expensive the bikes are to repair. My response would be: “well if they’re that expensive and likely to break down, what you’re saying is I need to get a Honda?” Bottom line, you need nothing they are selling and nothing they’re selling isn’t something worth the long term investment. You’re paying thousands of dollars for parts this may never break? I currently own 5 Harley Davidson motorcycles. Shovelhead, Twin Cam, 3X M8’s. Never once needed major repair where the dealership extended warranty would have helped me. The bikes are engineered to be bullet proof to at least 50,000 miles. Less than 6% of owners will ever put that many miles on a single bike in its lifetime let alone in one year. The real life statistics go against every argument they have.

3. The “Sit.” At a corrupted dealer, your entire experience has been predetermined through a well organized and trained staff that have been unknowingly conditioned into experts of psychological warfare. The sales team has been carefully trained by HD’s online sales programmer “Tom,” who tailored his sales structure for Harley-Davidson. There is a strict process the dealership wants every person that walks in treated.

First is the “greet,” “Hey how are you, welcome to our dealership! What do you ride now? What kind of riding do you do? I see that your looking at a black street glide (the “me too,” bike of the 21st century), do you enjoy long rides? Although these seem like polite, normal questions, they aren’t. They’re specifically targeted questions to open up dialogue and establish a target/ solution relationship via mutual fondness of a recreational activity.

Phase 2. Get the target under the “ether,” meaning get them excited about the product, get them to touch it, sit on it. 70% of customers buy motorcycles who bond with it on the floor. 50% of customers buy after a test ride. The sales staff knows this and understands it well. They are all too eager to show off the features and design. Because it’s all part of the process to get you into the “sit,” which is where they literally sit you down at a table, offer you a drink (sometimes alcohol) in order to get your personal information. They may tell you they aren’t running your credit, (they 1,000% are) don’t worry though. It’s a soft inquiry until you ask for financing options. Be careful here because the most corrupt of the corrupt often have their own personal banks. Yes. This is true. When HD financial deems you too much of a risk, and other established banks turn you down as well, not to fear… for an extreme interest rate, they can get you financed through another, “bank.” Maybe owned and operated by the dealership owner and his/ her financial partner? How awesome is that? Why is this an issue? Because depending on the interest rate and length of time financed you could have had two new Harley’s by the time make your last payment. Again, let that sink in.

Once the customer is under the “ether,” they become hungry for the bike. They stop being concerned with overpaying and more concerned about obtaining the shiner new toy. Too often I’ve seen it, I don’t care what it takes, just get me approved before someone else gets this bike.

Some customers are all too familiar with the tactic, but succumb anyway to good and relatable sales people. “Oh you don’t need help, you’re just looking,” tell me I’m selling you a bike without telling me I’m selling you a bike. The moment you answer a question or interact in any way with a good salesman. It’s over for you. The HD factory parking lots are paved with bodies of customers like that.

4. How to avoid corrupted dealerships? Do your research, learn how many dealerships or more than one location. The more they own, the more greedy they become. Not in every case but this is a good rule of thumb. Are you targeted the moment you walk in? Did they admit they are a DSRP dealer? Do they host a lot of events with free food and alcohol? Do they own their own financial institution aside from HD financial? Most importantly, do they have a high turnover rate for sales staff? This is the biggest tall tale sign. No matter what they say, if they don’t have at least, minimum of 4 “motorcycle,” sales team members (not motor clothes or sales managers, floor managers) but “fits,” or sales team members. (They’re called “fits,” because they “fit,” you to the appropriate motorcycle). that have been there at least 4 years. Run. High turnover rates mean poor management and ownership.

You cannot rely on internet or dealership page reviews as those are typically fluffed or paid reviews. I can show you 10 dealerships right now that are completely horrible with 5 star reviews. Unfortunately I cannot give specific dealers to stay away from for legal reasons. But I can tell you that in central to southwestern Ohio, that should clue you in on where to stay clear from. The best dealer in Ohio that I’ve worked with is Xenia and 7 Hills Harley-Davidson as of 02/2026. Nationwide, if you’re in California, I would recommend Laidlaws in Los Angeles. They still may have some fluff, but those may be as good as it gets. They’ll also work with the price in my personal experience. So yeah, not very many good dealers out there. But there are some excellent ones. If someone else has any information on good dealers please comment. We need to support good dealers and get the word out to keep them afloat. The greedy ones can die on the vine and are welcome to do so. When you see customers as ATM’s and not life long family. You’re out. Our Harley culture is one of brotherhood, it’s a long standing tradition to take care of each other. Not just specific to Harley owners but all motorcyclists out there of all brands.

My first experience with Harley-Davidson wasn’t a great one. Dealership BS. But how welcomed into the community, and the sincere kindness, openness and love from the HD family was overwhelming. I want the next generations of riders to see why the HD community is so special. True HD riders will stop to help any motorcyclist on the road. We appreciate anything on two wheels and express general interest and knowledge of the different brands. Although we may prefer HD, we respect all and welcome all. Very few HD owners learned to ride on a HD. Most, like me came from poor families and learned how to ride on old Japanese dirt bikes and ATV’s as kids. I wasn’t lucky enough to have a rich family member that owned one. I had to wait until I was 32 years old before I could afford a new one.

The biggest issue we face, (we as enthusiasts and owners) is losing interest in the brand and our culture. I’ve seen a lot of HD only fanboys and grey ponies. Those guys ruin it for people who may be curious or excited about the brand and the dealerships peddling this ATM mentality push people away. Gen X, Y and Z aren’t stupid. They’re all too familiar with scams and untrustworthy people. They aren’t super excited about motorcycles in general. Sales are declining year after year and if HD goes belly up, it will be due to the corruption in the dealerships. The price gouging and fluff tactics. I can go down to Ride NKY in Walton Kentucky and buy any new Kawasaki, Honda or Suzuki at MSRP + tax, right now today. No added fees. Why would a new rider pass up a great price on a new motorcycle to jump through hoops and overpay at HD? These are import bikes not domestic and they aren’t gouging. Why? Because HD is all about brand image and brand loyalty and they aren’t concerned with fair dealership practices.

Instead of building and designing bikes nobody wants like the new Sportster S, and Pan America. (Because market research suggests that Enduro sports are increasing blah blah blah) instead of taking the sportster evo engine, refreshing it to look exactly like an old knucklehead and add a modern springer front end which would sell an insane amount of bikes, they come out with a liquid cooled revolution max that literally nobody asked for. Janus motorcycles can’t even keep up with production on their 450cc retro bikes… why? Because people old and young want old school bikes!!!! I don’t understand this hipster Harley new age BS. HD sales numbers are getting worse and worse each year and the answer is so simple.

Go back to your roots. Build the bikes we all want to get excited about. Add the ABS and TC but give us the knucklehead and panheads back. Make retro bikes with modernized, upgraded engines. Make a knucklehead that doesn’t leak, has more power and throw a hand shifter on the tank again. Bring the springer back. Show Janus you can do it better.

Reel these dealerships in and build a company founded on integrity and honesty like the founders intended.

 

Yet another internet MBA. Yay! Joined the forum so he could bless us with his unique insights and wisdom. How lucky we are!

 

Nope! Unfortunately, I do not share the honor of holding an MBA. Just a Bachelors of Science in thermonuclear engineering and mechanical engineering. Thanks though Keith.

 

Ok, so an amateur MBA. And again thanks for your observations and suggestions, none of which any of us have ever heard before.

 

"First is the “greet,” “Hey how are you, welcome to our dealership! What do you ride now? What kind of riding do you do? I see that your looking at a black street glide (the “me too,” bike of the 21st century), do you enjoy long rides? Although these seem like polite, normal questions, they aren’t. They’re specifically targeted questions to open up dialogue and establish a target/ solution relationship via mutual fondness of a recreational activity."

... and how would you suggest the initiate a conversation >>." I see you prefer boxers to briefs? ... Have you ever walked into a Krogers and have them ask are you looking for tires?
I'll hazard a guess that I've been on two wheels for more years than you are old ... Doesn't make me any smarter but it does represent a significant worldly education of the motorcycling public ... Smile and ride safe

P.S.
I don't have a black Street Glide but I do have a black FXEF and a black FLHTCU

 

I appreciate what you wrote, thanks for taking the time to do that, I wasn't aware of some of those business practices. Sales people are just that, sales people - and sales are sales. Stick around though, regardless of any negative reactions here, no doubt you can contribute.

 

Was surprised they dropped the Sportster from the lineup, honestlyWhile *I* might not want to ride a Sportster, it seems to me that it's VERY entry-level, price-wise, to get your new riders hooked on the HD brand. I have a Heritage, but the wife has a '13 Sportster 1200C pulling her sidecar, and it's a little beast, really. No lack of power. But I know plenty of 883 owners that go up. In fact, I had a coworker, he was showing off his new 883 to me... he'd had it about 3 weeks I think and finally rode it to work. He's not fat, but he's a bulky fella. I tossed him the keys to the Heritage and told him to ride it around the parking lot. He went to the dealer that weekend and traded up to a Road King. So, the Sportster can serve a purpose. "Get you in the door."

But when I needed an emergency rear tire replacement on the Heritage... I happened to be close to an HD shop... omg the cost. Tire, mounting, bearings, etc... $640. "Stealership" indeed.
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Remedy = Don't buy a New Motorcycle! That's the Plan to avoid loosing Thousands of Dollar$ when you sign your name on the line!

 

Yeah, bought mine used. (And by "used" I mean "had just 300 miles"!) I don't think I'd ever buy a new vehicle again, honestly.

 

Jesus, what a wall of text! 📖 📕