Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

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Oct 17, 2007 | 02:19 PM

#121

bikergirl40

Elite HDF Member

Joined: May 2005

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RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: dog200753

Where I work if the problem is not fixed,and we diagnosed it,then we pay for it.Also we work 42 hours per week but only guarented 35 hours.That is how our flat rate system works.If your good at what you do you can make more time,if you are not then you only make 35 hours,It is possable to make 40 to 60 hours per week or more.Also if the job pays 3 hours and you take 5,you only get paid for 3

And rightly so...If it should take 3 ... It should take 3. Period. I never really understood how they come up with the flat rate system. I imagine it's based on the average time it may take.

I just know, when we provide an estimate for a customer, and we finish the job in less time. The customer only gets charged for the actual hours. If we screw up and it takes longer ... We charge them only what we originally estimated the job would take. That is unless something unexpected comes up. We can either do the job as per the estimate or do that as well as fix the unexpected "discovery" that arose in the meantime...THAT is left up to the customer.

Oct 17, 2007 | 02:20 PM

#122

FatBoy94

Cruiser

Joined: Oct 2007

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From:

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

where in NC are you gong to have your shop?

Oct 17, 2007 | 03:17 PM

#123

ohiomotoxer

Tourer

Joined: Apr 2007

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From:

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

When I worked at a Honda shop I was a flat rate mechanic.
IF you think you are a good wrench think again........Flat rate will either be your friend or bust you.

ALL procedures have a specific time they can be done in which is specified in a flat rate manual.

Example: Gold Wing stator, I have done 10+ I know all the tricks to get it done fast. I still get payed 3 hours to do the job BUT because I have done so many, and I am a master mechanic,I know which wrenches which bolts etc to remove and can breeze through the job in 2.5 hours.
Does it always work out so good................hahahaha I wish.
My first stator job took me 4.5 hours.

Not many mechanics can make the cut doing flat rate vs hourly.......
NOT all parts fit exactly, things go wrong, you get pulled away and forget to punch out on that job.........

Oct 17, 2007 | 05:39 PM

#124

hd2007

Road Warrior

Joined: Aug 2006

Posts: 1,377

Likes: 1

From: Grand Island , New York

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

I enjoy working on my own bikes , I have seen to many guys take shortcuts and be careless with other peoples bikes. I am not saying you are like that but I refuse to give my hard earned cash to a over-priced H-D dealer to do simple maintenance , that goes for my four wheelers as well.

Oct 17, 2007 | 11:00 PM

#125

doc_cj

Road Warrior

Joined: Jun 2007

Posts: 1,600

Likes: 2

From: Windsor, CO

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

Quote:

What the hell? - "Profession is reserved for Doctors, etc..." That's B.S. Here's what the dictionary says:
[snip]
I'm a surveyor. That is my profession.

For what it's worth ... theterm "profession" and "professional" have been watered down over the last couple centuries. The first professions were Divinity, Medicine and Law only. These were determined based on a fairly strict code which required, among other things, that the person have backgroundf in : (1) University education, (2) a Regulatory body, and (3) Code of Conduct (Code of Ethics). Over time the term has expanded to include other vocations, and today just about anyone with a full time job can call themself a professional.

Oct 17, 2007 | 11:44 PM

#126

R1Geezrglide

Road Warrior

Joined: Dec 2005

Posts: 1,690

Likes: 16

From: Waco TX, Tx-Prev Chicago

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

Ahhhh, debates over flate rates....The vast majority of shops in this country do not pay a guarantee. Therefore, if the techonly 'turns' 25 hours in a 45 hour week, then that's what he gets. Believe me, it happens and more often than you think. I was a training director ata Chev dealership when 911 happened. The market tanked after that-yes, even the repair side. The shop average production was 32hrs per tech. (38 techs)For many, that was a 'good' week. Most were putting in 50hr weeks to get that 32. During the year that followed, 3 filed bankruptcy and one lost his house.All the media would have you think flat rate is making dealers/techs rich. According to NADA, the optimal shop efficiency is 119% for a 40 hour week. Most are below that-and that's not taking into account those techs that come in early, stay late, and work through lunch. Are there techs that beat the book? Absolutely! If you are paid to perform a task and you have done that task 20, 30, 50, times, you are going to be pretty darn good at it. A tech has hundreds of tasks that he has to perform, some frequently, some not. It evens out in the end. They're not getting rich, they're just making a living.

Oct 17, 2007 | 11:57 PM

#127

whaap

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Apr 2006

Posts: 11,317

Likes: 11

From: Tucson, Az

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

There's alot more to flat rates than most techs would like you to know. To start off, flat rates includes the time it takes the tech to get the keys and work order for your vehicle, go out into the customer parking lot, locate your vehicle and drive it back into his bay. Also, things like bath room breaks, taking out tools and putting tools back away are also included in flat rate time. Walking over to the parts department to get the necessary parts are included. Then when the tech is finished he takes your vehicle back out to the parking lot and parks it. All functions are included.

Now imagine your work order has five different functions on it. (Oil change, new front tire, replace burned out bulb, etc). If each function is written on the estimate out of the flat rage manual, he is being paid five times to go out in the parking lot to get your vehicle while obviously he's only doing it once!. This is (or atleast it was years ago) referred to as "overlap".

Also you want to be aware of "included" items. An example would be you want to put new wheels and tires on your car. The flat rate for changing the wheels involves taking tires off and putting them back on the new wheel. What if the shop charges you their regular fee for the new tire (which includes changing). That's a case of being charged twice for changing a tire.

Oct 18, 2007 | 12:13 AM

#128

drdiesel1

Road Captain

Joined: Jul 2007

Posts: 714

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From:

RE: Math to consider when complaining about tech work pricing.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: whaap

There's alot more to flat rates than most techs would like you to know. To start off, flat rates includes the time it takes the tech to get the keys and work order for your vehicle, go out into the customer parking lot, locate your vehicle and drive it back into his bay. Also, things like bath room breaks, taking out tools and putting tools back away are also included in flat rate time. Walking over to the parts department to get the necessary parts are included. Then when the tech is finished he takes your vehicle back out to the parking lot and parks it. All functions are included.

Now imagine your work order has five different functions on it. (Oil change, new front tire, replace burned out bulb, etc). If each function is written on the estimate out of the flat rage manual, he is being paid five times to go out in the parking lot to get your vehicle while obviously he's only doing it once!. This is (or atleast it was years ago) referred to as "overlap".

Also you want to be aware of "included" items. An example would be you want to put new wheels and tires on your car. The flat rate for changing the wheels involves taking tires off and putting them back on the new wheel. What if the shop charges you their regular fee for the new tire (which includes changing). That's a case of being charged twice for changing a tire.

I have no idea where you came up with the idea that finding, racking, parts dept. time, breaks ETC are included into Flat Rate time, but I know for a fact they are not. I have been witness to labor time study practices. They include none of the items you have. They start with all the parts andtools out on a bench needed for the job. They perform the job 3 times and average the 3 to arrive at the base time evaluation. Then they add .5 for other processesthat you assume covers everything else. Well it will on some jobs, but not all. JMO
Flat rate breads butchers hacksand thieves within the dealers. Someone needs to makesome time for payday. So they pre-flag the next job. Then it sets there until they get to it. Now they have taken time (lets say 50% pre-flag) so they need to make it up now.. Guess what happens.