HP vs. TQ
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 566
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From:
RE: HP vs. TQ
ORIGINAL: JB
HP makes you fast
TQ makes you quick
HP makes you fast
TQ makes you quick
Herr Monk: Very few people actually know what TQ and HP is, how they are related and how they affect performance. Read the article below for a simple explanation. It's a Harley guy telling it as it is.
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_power.shtml
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 566
Likes: 3
From:
RE: HP vs. TQ
ORIGINAL: Herr Monk
Anyone look at that site and figure out the "power" at the rear wheel? I'm still feeling like that site is wrong, at least for a high torque low hp machine, I shift sooner at lower gears and closer to redline up high... to give me more hp up top...
Anyone look at that site and figure out the "power" at the rear wheel? I'm still feeling like that site is wrong, at least for a high torque low hp machine, I shift sooner at lower gears and closer to redline up high... to give me more hp up top...
What ever you do, don't trust your "butt dyno". In every gear, the driving force is decreasing after you've hit your TQ peak. That would seem like a good time to shift, but it's not. If you look at the shift point charts in the link you see that it is better to stay in a lower gear to utilize the lower gearing.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Where to Shift HP vs. TQ
ONCE you sift through all this BS....get one of these...
http://www.dynaonline.com/english/drag_mindersystem.htm
http://www.dynaonline.com/english/drag_mindersystem.htm
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 2
From: LAKESIDE CA.
RE: Where to Shift HP vs. TQ
why not take that question to a site that gives a sh&t shift when you feel it is right. your but should tell you cover the tach. listen to the engine/pipes . go back to the wheelie thread...
Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: St.Louis, MO.
RE: HP vs. TQ
ORIGINAL: Herr Monk
I'm talking about finding my shift points with my engine. It is what it is right now. Still messing with my map a little. Nothing special yet, mid 80s for tq from 2.5k-4.5k, nice flat curve. Mid 70s hp.
But I do want to get the most out of it. When I "build" my engine it will be for low-end... but right now I'm just trying to findout my how I even use the info I have to figure ideal shift points.
Sounds like given that my engine will never be running around 6k (I hope), the TQ numbers matter. Still, the "Power" band is different from gear to gear. Or at least feels like it is.
Just trying to get the most out of the bike I have.
ORIGINAL: txoval
I'm going to ask the question because the answer is going to differ based on your response. What are you trying to do? Develope shifts points for drag racing or daily driving? If you want a bike that feels fast on the street (stop light to stop light) you need to develop an engine that produces it max torque at low rpms. If you want a racing engine it will develope all of its power (HP) in the higher rpms. Like a previous poster wrote, you will have to do some test/tune sessions at the track to determine your best shifts points. Just because your engine produces it's max HP at 6500 rpmsdoesn't mean you shift at that point. More than likely it will be beyond that so that when you upshift you do not go too far out of that max HP rpm range...
I'm going to ask the question because the answer is going to differ based on your response. What are you trying to do? Develope shifts points for drag racing or daily driving? If you want a bike that feels fast on the street (stop light to stop light) you need to develop an engine that produces it max torque at low rpms. If you want a racing engine it will develope all of its power (HP) in the higher rpms. Like a previous poster wrote, you will have to do some test/tune sessions at the track to determine your best shifts points. Just because your engine produces it's max HP at 6500 rpmsdoesn't mean you shift at that point. More than likely it will be beyond that so that when you upshift you do not go too far out of that max HP rpm range...
But I do want to get the most out of it. When I "build" my engine it will be for low-end... but right now I'm just trying to findout my how I even use the info I have to figure ideal shift points.
Sounds like given that my engine will never be running around 6k (I hope), the TQ numbers matter. Still, the "Power" band is different from gear to gear. Or at least feels like it is.
Just trying to get the most out of the bike I have.
Herr Monk,
Maybe you could mount your dyno sheet on your bars that way you could follow along while you shift, watch Fox News, and have your morning cup of coffee....just sayin
Also....why is your face covered up all the time?? Are you in the witness protection program? Inquirying minds want to know
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 706
Likes: 1
RE: HP vs. TQ
Back in the old days(pre-Dyno)when quarter mile times were how performance was measured, bike magazines employed hired guns to run test bikes and modded bikes through the quarter for them. There were maybe four names that always popped up as test riders. These guys were the best and very consistent. Anyway, long story short...When Harleys were being tested and optimized for the quarter, it was very common for them to be short shifted and have the gearing raised quite a bit above stock to obtain the best times. People forget to consider all the energy stored in those heavy flywheels when they are looking for street performance gearing. This doesn't show up on a dyno. I don't usually even waste my time trying to explain the concept...
Thread Starter
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,541
Likes: 1
From: Nuevo México, Los Estados Unidos de América
RE: HP vs. TQ
ORIGINAL: cwilks
Herr Monk,
Maybe you could mount your dyno sheet on your bars that way you could follow along while you shift, watch Fox News, and have your morning cup of coffee....just sayin
Also....why is your face covered up all the time?? Are you in the witness protection program? Inquirying minds want to know
Herr Monk,
Maybe you could mount your dyno sheet on your bars that way you could follow along while you shift, watch Fox News, and have your morning cup of coffee....just sayin
Also....why is your face covered up all the time?? Are you in the witness protection program? Inquirying minds want to know
Cynic, I have a very basic understanding of how the flywheels work... basically they story kenetic energy... Is there a way you would suggest upgrading?
...and thanks grumpy irish again for reminding me that I'm the only one I know my age who bought one of these things instead of a rice rocket
and I shoulda saved a couple grand and bough something plastic fantastic...
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Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: St.Louis, MO.
RE: HP vs. TQ
ORIGINAL: Herr Monk
That was the plan, but I'm trying to figure out how to read the dang Dyno sheet to get the most out of it... now that I learned that I don't need to use the clutch after first it's even easier
Cynic, I have a very basic understanding of how the flywheels work... basically they story kenetic energy... Is there a way you would suggest upgrading?
...and thanks grumpy irish again for reminding me that I'm the only one I know my age who bought one of these things instead of a rice rocket and I shoulda saved a couple grand and bough something plastic fantastic...
ORIGINAL: cwilks
Herr Monk,
Maybe you could mount your dyno sheet on your bars that way you could follow along while you shift, watch Fox News, and have your morning cup of coffee....just sayin
Also....why is your face covered up all the time?? Are you in the witness protection program? Inquirying minds want to know
Herr Monk,
Maybe you could mount your dyno sheet on your bars that way you could follow along while you shift, watch Fox News, and have your morning cup of coffee....just sayin
Also....why is your face covered up all the time?? Are you in the witness protection program? Inquirying minds want to know
Cynic, I have a very basic understanding of how the flywheels work... basically they story kenetic energy... Is there a way you would suggest upgrading?
...and thanks grumpy irish again for reminding me that I'm the only one I know my age who bought one of these things instead of a rice rocket
and I shoulda saved a couple grand and bough something plastic fantastic...
Are you purposely ignoring my last question......it will not go away.......we HAVE to know if we are going to continue this converstaion....WE WILL NOT be ignored....just askin
Oh by the way...if you haven't figured it out by now...your WAAAYYY to young to be askin such a learned question.....so KNOCK IT OFF
You should be more concerned with things like...fingerless gloves, chaps. how to tie DooRags, ya know those kinds of IMPORTANT things.