For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
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RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
ORIGINAL: Jezcruzen
"Ambulance crews will sometimes refuse to load a critical patient as, if he dies, they will be automatically charged with manslaughter and practically nobody can save their sorry asses."
Bull ****! Where do you live......OZ?
"Ambulance crews will sometimes refuse to load a critical patient as, if he dies, they will be automatically charged with manslaughter and practically nobody can save their sorry asses."
Bull ****! Where do you live......OZ?
Not all the world dances to your music, you know?
I live in Italy, BTW.
There has been much debate on this issue here, but unfortunately little is changed. Very often they chose abandonement as the charges, up until a year or so ago, where much lighter than those for homicide or manslaughter.
Today things have changed, due to the frequency of people causing accidents running away to avoid the awesome insuranc efees that such an occurrence implies. Now if you get caught you risk at least 5 years.
I'm not talking about vague hearsay, but of real cases that were told me by people who lived them first hand.
As I said, it's not a daily issue, but has happened, and will happen again.
This said, believe what you like...it doesn't make any difference to me.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,728
Likes: 1
From: Olympia, Washington
RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
ORIGINAL: capt775
I'd just like to add to what sleepman has said, a little. Try to think A,B,C first.
A.) Airway, if they ain't breathing, they ain't getting any Oxygen. Sometimes its as easy as opening their airway.
B.) Bleeding, I don't mean oozing cuts and scrapes but the big squirting kind or flowing ones that need to be stopped. But this usually does indicate that their heart is still working.
C.) Circulation, If the airways open, they ain't bleeding out, but their heart ain't pumping their not getting oxygen to the brain or anything else. Of course if they'rein this condition you need to know CPR.
Try not to focus on the obvious injuries. "deformed" limbs and such are ugly and look bad but most won't cause death. I've seen trained but inexpierenced people trying to fix a badly broken leg or arm that rapped around their head, and the patient wouldn't be breathing.
If they're concious, keep 'em calm, warm, and as still as possible. People with head injuries can be combative.
I wouldn't worry about the legal aspect of helping someone, you are protected under the "good samaritan law" and would have to be real negligent in your treatment to loose a suit, or even have one brought against you for helping someone.
Oh yeah, sometimes you gotta move 'em. If they're still in a busy roadway you gotta get them and you "OUT OF THE ROAD". Blocking the road with your car sounds good but unless you have a 50,000 lb firetruck it usually won't work. This could get as long as a book, but these are just some things to think about.
I'd just like to add to what sleepman has said, a little. Try to think A,B,C first.
A.) Airway, if they ain't breathing, they ain't getting any Oxygen. Sometimes its as easy as opening their airway.
B.) Bleeding, I don't mean oozing cuts and scrapes but the big squirting kind or flowing ones that need to be stopped. But this usually does indicate that their heart is still working.
C.) Circulation, If the airways open, they ain't bleeding out, but their heart ain't pumping their not getting oxygen to the brain or anything else. Of course if they'rein this condition you need to know CPR.
Try not to focus on the obvious injuries. "deformed" limbs and such are ugly and look bad but most won't cause death. I've seen trained but inexpierenced people trying to fix a badly broken leg or arm that rapped around their head, and the patient wouldn't be breathing.
If they're concious, keep 'em calm, warm, and as still as possible. People with head injuries can be combative.
I wouldn't worry about the legal aspect of helping someone, you are protected under the "good samaritan law" and would have to be real negligent in your treatment to loose a suit, or even have one brought against you for helping someone.
Oh yeah, sometimes you gotta move 'em. If they're still in a busy roadway you gotta get them and you "OUT OF THE ROAD". Blocking the road with your car sounds good but unless you have a 50,000 lb firetruck it usually won't work. This could get as long as a book, but these are just some things to think about.
Don't move them--ever--unless they're in danger of dying (nearby fire, probably of gas explosion). The harm you could do is too damn high.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,058
Likes: 8
From: MEXICO
RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
There was a huge controversy regarding the "good samaritan" here in Mexico. Few years ago you were not able to involve in a accident trying to help anyone because you'd ran the risk of hurting them or if they died in your car before getting to the hospital you would be charged legally. It is completely diferent these days, now you can assist people if you demonstrate that you knew what you where doing. You can get to the point of picking up a hurted person to the hospital, even if he dies in your car as long as you declare that he was still alive when you picked him up, you won't go to jail. This is of course a last resource when you know the situation is critical, for example in a situation when you know that help is not coming (no cell phone to make the call, no signal, etc.)
Regards,
Mimo.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
The lowers on an Ultra make a good place to carry first aid kits. Make sure you also have disposable gloves.
I've utilized my first aid/CPR training three times in my lifetime--two from traffic accidents and one from a heart attack. The thing that sticks out in my mind in all three is that someone has to "take control" and give orders, as most people just stand around not knowing what to do.
Someone else mentioned earlier--one of the most important things to do first is secure the scene so no one else, yourself included, gets hurt.
I've utilized my first aid/CPR training three times in my lifetime--two from traffic accidents and one from a heart attack. The thing that sticks out in my mind in all three is that someone has to "take control" and give orders, as most people just stand around not knowing what to do.
Someone else mentioned earlier--one of the most important things to do first is secure the scene so no one else, yourself included, gets hurt.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 493
Likes: 1
From: Oceanside, CA
RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
check out http://www.accidentscene.net/indexhtml. My local HOGchapter sponsored this class a year ago and we had 25 memeber participate. This is great in addition to regular first aid and CPR training in that it is specific to motorcycle accidents. I have since used this knowledge 2 different times.
Novice
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22
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From:
RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
Atrerial bleed really isn't that big a concern if your not breathing. Airway doesn't mean rescue breaths, it just refers to maintaining it so the pt can breath without obstruction. This is number one in emergency medicine. Don't get me wrong a bad bleed needs to be adressed fast but not at the expense of an airway. If you can't reverse either one the prognosis isn't good.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 762
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From:
RE: For those with professional training in rescue... How to?
Exactly !
capt42a
capt42a
ORIGINAL: Rolldog
You only have a duty to act if your on duty, paidEMT, firefighter, or police officer.Abandonment isif you start treatment and then leave without transfering care to someone of equal or greater skill. ie. nurse to doctor, medic to nurse. If you are trained in emergency medicine you are held to what is known as the standard of care. This means you must treat the injured person as such another person with the same training is expected to do. If you are just first aid certified good samaratin laws protect you against doing any harm. Good advise to follow, only move the person as much as need be to keep them safe. Look out for traffic, this is your biggest concern when stopping to help, period. I wouldn't do mouth to mouth on a stranger, to many bad things out there. Control bleeding with direct pressure and elevation. If you are trained in airway management, try to keep the airway open. Stay safe.
You only have a duty to act if your on duty, paidEMT, firefighter, or police officer.Abandonment isif you start treatment and then leave without transfering care to someone of equal or greater skill. ie. nurse to doctor, medic to nurse. If you are trained in emergency medicine you are held to what is known as the standard of care. This means you must treat the injured person as such another person with the same training is expected to do. If you are just first aid certified good samaratin laws protect you against doing any harm. Good advise to follow, only move the person as much as need be to keep them safe. Look out for traffic, this is your biggest concern when stopping to help, period. I wouldn't do mouth to mouth on a stranger, to many bad things out there. Control bleeding with direct pressure and elevation. If you are trained in airway management, try to keep the airway open. Stay safe.
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