No sugar coating.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,217
Likes: 3
From: Southern Ohio
RE: No sugar coating.
ORIGINAL: powaypete
[sm=popcorn.gif]
ORIGINAL: *NIGHT TRAIN*
Well, this has been very informative...I've learned that:
1) I didn't know that there werebikerswhocould ride well enough that they could never beinjured or killedby people driving under the influence of alcohol, drugs, road rage or just stupidity, because such things can be avoided 100%...
because they'recareful.
2) That there are no such things as"accidents" beyond their control...because they're careful.
3) That I'm just smart enough to know that I'm not one of those bikers...also smart enough not to subscribe to any theory that every accident involving abike is the fault of the biker...$hit happens.
You guys ride safe...[sm=smiley20.gif]
Well, this has been very informative...I've learned that:
1) I didn't know that there werebikerswhocould ride well enough that they could never beinjured or killedby people driving under the influence of alcohol, drugs, road rage or just stupidity, because such things can be avoided 100%...
because they'recareful.
2) That there are no such things as"accidents" beyond their control...because they're careful.
3) That I'm just smart enough to know that I'm not one of those bikers...also smart enough not to subscribe to any theory that every accident involving abike is the fault of the biker...$hit happens.
You guys ride safe...[sm=smiley20.gif]
Cat got your tongue, or you just playin' "Maytag"?....[sm=laughingsmilie.gif]
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Cary, NC
RE: No sugar coating.
My MSF instructor, who is a retired North Carolina State Trooper and teaches his defensive driving to other law enforcment agencies, told us the following on our first night:
"There are reasons why riders have 20+, 30+ years riding experience without an accident. And it ain't all luck!"
I understand what the OP is trying to say and I agree 100%. Regardless of fault, we will lose every time.
Just my $.02
"There are reasons why riders have 20+, 30+ years riding experience without an accident. And it ain't all luck!"
I understand what the OP is trying to say and I agree 100%. Regardless of fault, we will lose every time.
Just my $.02
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Tacoma, Washington
RE: No sugar coating.
I must agree. No matter whose fault an accident is riders usually come out on the short end of the stick. My previous post was to simply point out in perhaps an overly dramatic fashion that while we as riders have SOME control over what happens to us while riding we DO NOT and can NEVER have total control. The only way to be sure that we are not involved in a ridingaccident is ... JUST DON'T RIDE. The premise that we as riders are responsible for any and all accidents that we may be involved in is simply bunk. If that were not true then the word "accident" would not existfor bikers Because we would be guilty of "causing" any "accident" we may be involved in. While maintaining situational awareness while riding is an important factor in our being able to survive while riding accepting fault for any "accidents" we may be involvedin is just a bit over the top don't you think? AND ONE MORE THING YELLOTANG ... FOR GOD'S SAKE GET RID OF THE FATTY!!!!
[IMG]local://upfiles/30695/5880A6303E5241C0BAD5A5B2BDFDFB6C.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/30695/5880A6303E5241C0BAD5A5B2BDFDFB6C.jpg[/IMG]
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
RE: No sugar coating.
I could agree with SOME of that statement in that there are precautions we can all take, but there is still room for some of the things folks are posting about.What do you do if you are riding, or even parked in a lot putting you all your safety gear on, and the tectonic plates under the La Brea and San Andreas fault suddenly shift violently and without warning causing a large fissure to open up right under you. What if you are riding, or sitting on your front porch reading the paper, and a bullet fired into the air from some jackass 8 miles away comes down and strikes you right in the eyes? What about the rider who was hit and killed by lightning?
How are those things theriders fault?
How are those things theriders fault?
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,317
Likes: 11
From: Tucson, Az
RE: No sugar coating.
ORIGINAL: Paniolo
I could agree with SOME of that statement in that there are precautions we can all take, but there is still room for some of the things folks are posting about.What do you do if you are riding, or even parked in a lot putting you all your safety gear on, and the tectonic plates under the La Brea and San Andreas fault suddenly shift violently and without warning causing a large fissure to open up right under you. What if you are riding, or sitting on your front porch reading the paper, and a bullet fired into the air from some jackass 8 miles away comes down and strikes you right in the eyes? What about the rider who was hit and killed by lightning?
How are those things theriders fault?
I could agree with SOME of that statement in that there are precautions we can all take, but there is still room for some of the things folks are posting about.What do you do if you are riding, or even parked in a lot putting you all your safety gear on, and the tectonic plates under the La Brea and San Andreas fault suddenly shift violently and without warning causing a large fissure to open up right under you. What if you are riding, or sitting on your front porch reading the paper, and a bullet fired into the air from some jackass 8 miles away comes down and strikes you right in the eyes? What about the rider who was hit and killed by lightning?
How are those things theriders fault?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
RE: No sugar coating.
ORIGINAL: landest
PLEASEchange that pic guy..... Dang.
PLEASEchange that pic guy..... Dang.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From:
RE: No sugar coating.
Just to add a thought here, I read a MSF safety discussion in which it was stated that folks are taught to look out for cars and trucks when turning and entering highways, this also includes changing lanes. With this thought, they may look directly at you, eye to eye and not see you because they are not looking for you. So, solution(?), lights (passing lights on all the time), flashing brake lights (backoff brand, etc....), while staying in your lane, change from one side to the other, the movement may catch their attention and be ready to stop, or take evasive actions at all times. I know, I know, you have all heard it before, but it has been proven that repitition helps remembering.
Also, I have also had problems when a bike is directly in front of a cars headlight, or directly behind the tail lights, especially at night. Just my thoughts. Now fuss away.
Also, I have also had problems when a bike is directly in front of a cars headlight, or directly behind the tail lights, especially at night. Just my thoughts. Now fuss away.
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Joe Kucinski
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,217
Likes: 3
From: Southern Ohio
RE: No sugar coating.
"I believe that every crash involving a motorcycle is the fault of the motorcyclist, including those in which the bike is rear ended when stopped."
For the record...the above statement, which is simply the opinion of a reader in an article quoted by the OP, is the only thing I have differed with in the originalpost...
I ride every day assafely as possible...I have heard a number of great pieces of advise from many members here, which I take to heart when I ride...I will give up a right of way, keep my bike in gear when stopped, cover my mirrors, and move out of harms way any way I can to protect myself regardless of who is at fault in the incident...it's not aboutsplitting hairs over who's right or wrong...
I simply disagree with the comment that it's ALWAYS THE BIKER'S FAULT...nuff said...
For the record...the above statement, which is simply the opinion of a reader in an article quoted by the OP, is the only thing I have differed with in the originalpost...
I ride every day assafely as possible...I have heard a number of great pieces of advise from many members here, which I take to heart when I ride...I will give up a right of way, keep my bike in gear when stopped, cover my mirrors, and move out of harms way any way I can to protect myself regardless of who is at fault in the incident...it's not aboutsplitting hairs over who's right or wrong...
I simply disagree with the comment that it's ALWAYS THE BIKER'S FAULT...nuff said...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
RE: No sugar coating.
ORIGINAL: whaap
For Pete sake, keep it real !! The original post was only referring to traffic accidents in general and not life altering events.
ORIGINAL: Paniolo
I could agree with SOME of that statement in that there are precautions we can all take, but there is still room for some of the things folks are posting about.What do you do if you are riding, or even parked in a lot putting you all your safety gear on, and the tectonic plates under the La Brea and San Andreas fault suddenly shift violently and without warning causing a large fissure to open up right under you. What if you are riding, or sitting on your front porch reading the paper, and a bullet fired into the air from some jackass 8 miles away comes down and strikes you right in the eyes? What about the rider who was hit and killed by lightning?
How are those things theriders fault?
I could agree with SOME of that statement in that there are precautions we can all take, but there is still room for some of the things folks are posting about.What do you do if you are riding, or even parked in a lot putting you all your safety gear on, and the tectonic plates under the La Brea and San Andreas fault suddenly shift violently and without warning causing a large fissure to open up right under you. What if you are riding, or sitting on your front porch reading the paper, and a bullet fired into the air from some jackass 8 miles away comes down and strikes you right in the eyes? What about the rider who was hit and killed by lightning?
How are those things theriders fault?
You are right, but accidents can be life altering events. And like others said motorcycling in and of itself is a risk that we all acknowledge. To show this the MSF has this whole "ladder of risk" thing they make uscoach in the classroom. Meaning how far does a person want to go up that ladder of risk? You could put at the bottom of the ladder "stay home", and at the top, "drink shots and do 100mph wheelies and stoppies buck naked on a rain slicked road".And like you pointed out, while some of my "scenarios" are far fetched (except for the rider being killed by lightning as that did happen in Colorado last year), most things could be avoided if the rider took apporpriate precautionary action. However, sometimes accidents happen. A rider can wear every bit of safety equipment, have taken and practiced every riding course available, ride safely positioning himself in all the right spots for visibility while creating that cushion of space and time, and still the best laid plans of mice and men often go arwy.All I'm saying isdon't blame the rider for what is not his fault.
Mark
Now, what words did he say to that women to get her to take that photo on the bike?