Water Cooled Harleys!?
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
From: WA
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
ORIGINAL: LarryDman
I never had any interest in riding a MC until I saw a Documentary on Discovery Channel called "Birth Of The V-Rod", Loved its looks so much I went and got one (Luckily I saw it in 2005 so I got a used one for almost nothing). Not being from a Bike Background I didnt know I was buying the Most Hated Harley and as I learned to ride I also learned that Bike People are Very Closed mined and Hypocritical, especially the ones draped in HD clothes and spouting 'Live to Ride, Ride to Live" or "Live Free" etc... Apparently their is an Footnote somewhere that states "Only if you agree with everything I believe in" so I soon Soured from the HD "thing" due to most riders need to tell me what they think about my bike and the lack of Techs that know how to fix the new Technology. Over 3 years later i have found the proper Tech (40 miles away unfortunately, I actually have to pass 10 dealerships to get to this guys Indie Shop) No longer listen to the bigots and Love my bike . Harley In my opinion caved in almost immediately from the Negative feed Back from its Core riders and started to Paint the Vrod trying to make it blend in with other HD models, made Huge mistakes like The Street Rod and Too many models available and now 6 years later I feel they have accepted their Model (HD, not their Core Customers) and trimmed down the line to 3 models one with Mid Controls to catch that customer base. If it wasnt for this bike I wouldnt own a bike, Will HD change the other Models to Water? Not until the last moment but since I have been discriminated against I basically just ride with Other Vrod owners and the general idea is that if it wasnt for this Line, they would not own one so HD did Capture that Audience of people that would Not own one if not for the Vrod line.
I never had any interest in riding a MC until I saw a Documentary on Discovery Channel called "Birth Of The V-Rod", Loved its looks so much I went and got one (Luckily I saw it in 2005 so I got a used one for almost nothing). Not being from a Bike Background I didnt know I was buying the Most Hated Harley and as I learned to ride I also learned that Bike People are Very Closed mined and Hypocritical, especially the ones draped in HD clothes and spouting 'Live to Ride, Ride to Live" or "Live Free" etc... Apparently their is an Footnote somewhere that states "Only if you agree with everything I believe in" so I soon Soured from the HD "thing" due to most riders need to tell me what they think about my bike and the lack of Techs that know how to fix the new Technology. Over 3 years later i have found the proper Tech (40 miles away unfortunately, I actually have to pass 10 dealerships to get to this guys Indie Shop) No longer listen to the bigots and Love my bike . Harley In my opinion caved in almost immediately from the Negative feed Back from its Core riders and started to Paint the Vrod trying to make it blend in with other HD models, made Huge mistakes like The Street Rod and Too many models available and now 6 years later I feel they have accepted their Model (HD, not their Core Customers) and trimmed down the line to 3 models one with Mid Controls to catch that customer base. If it wasnt for this bike I wouldnt own a bike, Will HD change the other Models to Water? Not until the last moment but since I have been discriminated against I basically just ride with Other Vrod owners and the general idea is that if it wasnt for this Line, they would not own one so HD did Capture that Audience of people that would Not own one if not for the Vrod line.
It's amazing how even other HD "diehards" still wont accept you because you have the wrong Harley. I have an 07 Fatboy and the old school HD guys dont like it because it's new. WTF is up with that. I was at a BMW dealer with a friend and all the BMW guys liked it and allot of them own a Harley as well as there BMW's, they accept anyone on 2 wheels, where the Harley guys might accept you if you ride the right HD. The Harley lifestyle? F#$% it you can keep it.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 2
From: Denver, Colorado
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
most peopel don't have an issue with the rod other than the fact that they won't buy one. It never interested me in the same way as the 45-degree air coolers did. Different bike, that's all. If all harley made was the 'rod I'd buy something different.
some people want old, some people want new. So make both.
some people want old, some people want new. So make both.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 11
From:
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
ORIGINAL: Lopoetve
most peopel don't have an issue with the rod other than the fact that they won't buy one. It never interested me in the same way as the 45-degree air coolers did. Different bike, that's all. If all harley made was the 'rod I'd buy something different.
some people want old, some people want new. So make both.
most peopel don't have an issue with the rod other than the fact that they won't buy one. It never interested me in the same way as the 45-degree air coolers did. Different bike, that's all. If all harley made was the 'rod I'd buy something different.
some people want old, some people want new. So make both.
Is it me or do most peoplethat saythey are interested in a water cooled HD have no interest in buying aVROD.I dont get it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
ORIGINAL: Harley_Dude
These are all using evo motors.
ORIGINAL: AZ Rider
So S&S, Victory, Big Dogand others can make EPA compliant air cooled engines for 2010 but not the manufacturer who sells 300,000 bikes per year, whos heritage is based on air cooled engines, and who has the most loyal following because of the traditional air cooled v-twin...cannot.
Sure.
So S&S, Victory, Big Dogand others can make EPA compliant air cooled engines for 2010 but not the manufacturer who sells 300,000 bikes per year, whos heritage is based on air cooled engines, and who has the most loyal following because of the traditional air cooled v-twin...cannot.
Sure.
And Victory is CERTAINLY not using anything close to an EVO motor.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 8
From: Bergen, Norway
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
ORIGINAL: LarryDman
If it wasnt for this bike I wouldnt own a bike, Will HD change the other Models to Water? Not until the last moment but since I have been discriminated against I basically just ride with Other Vrod owners and the general idea is that if it wasnt for this Line, they would not own one so HD did Capture that Audience of people that would Not own one if not for the Vrod line.
If it wasnt for this bike I wouldnt own a bike, Will HD change the other Models to Water? Not until the last moment but since I have been discriminated against I basically just ride with Other Vrod owners and the general idea is that if it wasnt for this Line, they would not own one so HD did Capture that Audience of people that would Not own one if not for the Vrod line.
Johan
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
Here is some info on the Wedge engine:
http://www.x-wedge.com/
Check this link, which includes this quote:
While governmental compliance was high on the list, S&S knew better than anyone (except for maybe Harley-Davidson) just how important it was to center the design of the new engine around three important themes. The proposed powerplant needed to have a direct connection to the past. Trying to sell an engine to its customers without features such as a Vee configuration, pushrod-actuated valves and air-cooling would be tantamount to corporate suicide.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Articl...497&Page=1
There's no doubt in my mind that corporate Harley would have the same opinion.
http://www.x-wedge.com/
Check this link, which includes this quote:
While governmental compliance was high on the list, S&S knew better than anyone (except for maybe Harley-Davidson) just how important it was to center the design of the new engine around three important themes. The proposed powerplant needed to have a direct connection to the past. Trying to sell an engine to its customers without features such as a Vee configuration, pushrod-actuated valves and air-cooling would be tantamount to corporate suicide.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Articl...497&Page=1
There's no doubt in my mind that corporate Harley would have the same opinion.
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 522
Likes: 3
From:
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
Smart marketing on Harleys part they've made the deuce, road glide, rocker, vrod in a modern look and the glides, dynas, crossbones, springers as a throw back to older bikes. Got to hand it to them to make something for everyone, to survive Harleys already learned they have to make a quality product or become a footnote to history, I.E. all the U.S bike companies that are not around anymore. Of course not every thing that comes out of the MoCo is a hit the riders usually vote their wallets.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
ORIGINAL: CamFX
EPa emission rules change and get tighter in 2010. Its an almost sure thing that an air cooled motor will not be able to meet the new standards. Look how much heat the 96ci are making already. Plus clearances in an air cooled motor have to be larger to allow for more thermal expansion/contraction which contributes to more emissions.
EPa emission rules change and get tighter in 2010. Its an almost sure thing that an air cooled motor will not be able to meet the new standards. Look how much heat the 96ci are making already. Plus clearances in an air cooled motor have to be larger to allow for more thermal expansion/contraction which contributes to more emissions.
Combustion efficiency and engine emissions are directly linked to Compression ratio. Most modern engines run between 10,5 and 11,5:1.
Moreover, superlean combustion is usually used to further reduce emissions, but this furtherly heats up the chamber walls. Water cooling becomes a necessity. I like air cooled engines for their simplicity, and will hold fast to my Dyna
But on a rational level, I have to admit that the reasons that made an air cooled engine worth having have ceased to exist since long time. Moreover, modern HD engines are far from simple. My '07 Dyna has electronic injection, an active control exhaust and active control intake. There's more electronics in that "simple, air cooled engine" than in my tuned, turbocharged japanese Lancer Evo IX.
So, I guess that the times of the air cooled engine are over, and we have to cope with this. The distinctive sound will be there all the same, as well as the vibration and the mechanical sounds of the transmission. We will just have to deal with a radiator.
Well, on the bright side, no more shutdowns and much less "roasted tigh" in hot days.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
ORIGINAL: Cagetender
Dont change a thing. The reason I bought a Harley Is the same reason I bought a Colt Single Action Army, a Shiloh Sharps and a mechanical watch. I like the primeval unadulterated function and soul of a product in this case a motorbike. If Ford made a deucecoupe with a Flathead I would buy this too. If Harley still made the JD which they made till 1929 ,I would buy that too. I think its also it is the basic sense and sentimentalty of being an American and being proud of it,even though Im a Canadian. Tell me if that makes sense. Americans have always been my heros and every genuine one of them that I have met has always been an Ambassador for freedom backed up by blood and guts.
Dont change a thing. The reason I bought a Harley Is the same reason I bought a Colt Single Action Army, a Shiloh Sharps and a mechanical watch. I like the primeval unadulterated function and soul of a product in this case a motorbike. If Ford made a deucecoupe with a Flathead I would buy this too. If Harley still made the JD which they made till 1929 ,I would buy that too. I think its also it is the basic sense and sentimentalty of being an American and being proud of it,even though Im a Canadian. Tell me if that makes sense. Americans have always been my heros and every genuine one of them that I have met has always been an Ambassador for freedom backed up by blood and guts.
I'm a system administrator. I deal with high technology everyday and, actually, I pretty like it, in certain applications.
For example I own a digital TV recorder, several last-generation game consoles, both fixed and portable, a home network more complex than the one there's in my office. They are good things to have to make your life more comfortable and fun. But I also have a mechanical watch (will wear quartz watches only if compelled) I write with a fountain pen, I'm a blacksmith for a hobby and forge my knives out of old files and scrap parts with a hand-cranked coal forge, and like to have the least possible electronics in my car.
Certain things have to have a soul for them being worth having.
A Harley Davidson, that's a motorcycle. A Suzuki GSXR? That's just a superfast one-man vehcile.
PS: Compliments on the Shiloh Sharps! I'd like one of those, but they are out of my economical reach right now (has to pay the bike...
)
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,238
Likes: 0
From: Desmoines, Iowa
RE: Water Cooled Harleys!?
this comes up about as much as about the helmets .what i hear and seen it's not going to happen.you dont think harley plays with that kind of stuff. what i have heard they have design a couple and scaped it. never made it to the prouduction floor. if you want water cool buy a v-rod because that is close as it will happen.i dont know who up with this thing that just because it's water cool it will meet e.p.a. you can meet e.p.a. with out the water cool thing.thing about it why would the metric people be building air cool motors if they would have to go back water cool.yes harley is selling v-rods but not at the rate of the other and not even close.