Chemist? Pls Explain New Octane Boost
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Montana & Arkansas
Chemist? Pls Explain New Octane Boost
Haven't seen a thread with this particular octane issue, so...
Gas here has had the pump stickers "may contain ethanol" for quite awhile, but today new stickers are going on the pumps "Contains 10% ethanol"... and at the same moment the 91 premium octane stickers have been replaced with 93 Octane stickers.
Thought I knew a fair amount about octane issues from years of hot rods/timing & tuning and such.
Did the boost to 10% ethanol in itself increase the octane by 2 points? Or did the refinery have to refine the fuel up to 93 to be able to handle or offset the ethanol or something like that? An inquiring and sometimes goofy mind wants to know
!
Gas here has had the pump stickers "may contain ethanol" for quite awhile, but today new stickers are going on the pumps "Contains 10% ethanol"... and at the same moment the 91 premium octane stickers have been replaced with 93 Octane stickers.
Thought I knew a fair amount about octane issues from years of hot rods/timing & tuning and such.
Did the boost to 10% ethanol in itself increase the octane by 2 points? Or did the refinery have to refine the fuel up to 93 to be able to handle or offset the ethanol or something like that? An inquiring and sometimes goofy mind wants to know
!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: The Desert SouthWest
Wow excellent question - I'm interested in this one too...
Here in Calif we dont use ethanol, at least not in my area but i swear the winter fuel blends give about 10%+ LESS mpg's than the summer blends.
Here in Calif we dont use ethanol, at least not in my area but i swear the winter fuel blends give about 10%+ LESS mpg's than the summer blends.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 704
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From: Orlando, FL
Yep. The Ethanol-Disciples all claim it's better for the atmosphere, but first the difference is so slight that since the gas mileage goes down faster & you have to buy more sooner, it pretty much negates the whole "better for the environment" theory. Not to mention it's driven up the price of corn and has made groceries more expensive...
"I invented the internet..." blah blah blah
"I invented the internet..." blah blah blah
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: right down from the FloraBama
Haven't seen a thread with this particular octane issue, so...
Did the boost to 10% ethanol in itself increase the octane by 2 points? Or did the refinery have to refine the fuel up to 93 to be able to handle or offset the ethanol or something like that? An inquiring and sometimes goofy mind wants to know!
Did the boost to 10% ethanol in itself increase the octane by 2 points? Or did the refinery have to refine the fuel up to 93 to be able to handle or offset the ethanol or something like that? An inquiring and sometimes goofy mind wants to know
!As to fuel economy and horse power. Octane rating is not a power rating. Higher octane fuel only translates into more power if you use it in a high compression engine. More likely than not, a higher octane fuel will have less heat energy than a lower octane fuel.
Disclaimer: opinions based on a 30 year old Gator chemisty degree.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Novi MI
Ethanol is the highest-performance fuel on the market, with an octane rating of 113 in its pure form.
Ethanol-enriched fuel contains more oxygen — so it burns cleaner
Fuel enriched with 10% ethanol burns cleaner, helping to remove gummy deposits in the fuel system so engines can run with optimal performance.
Enriching fuel with 10% ethanol helps it to burn cleaner and at a cooler temperature, which can add to engine longevity.
So I would say the reason for the 2% octane increase is the ethanol.
Ethanol-enriched fuel contains more oxygen — so it burns cleaner
Fuel enriched with 10% ethanol burns cleaner, helping to remove gummy deposits in the fuel system so engines can run with optimal performance.
Enriching fuel with 10% ethanol helps it to burn cleaner and at a cooler temperature, which can add to engine longevity.
So I would say the reason for the 2% octane increase is the ethanol.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Montana & Arkansas
Ah, knew there were some chemists out there
. Thanks ... and it sounds like the local gas got its 2 points of octane boost just inherently from the refinery upping the ethanol content. The regular grade also instantly popped up to 87 from its prior 85.5 due to the ethanol addition.
Thanks!
. Thanks ... and it sounds like the local gas got its 2 points of octane boost just inherently from the refinery upping the ethanol content. The regular grade also instantly popped up to 87 from its prior 85.5 due to the ethanol addition. Thanks!
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 236
Likes: 6
From: San Jose, CA
Yes, ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline. You need a much higher compression engine to burn pure ethanol, which is why normal cars can only go up to 10% ethanol. This despite having a lower amount of energy per unit volume than regular gasoline. Higher octane DOES NOT equal higher performance, it is a measure of a fuel's tendency to burn rather than explode.
Most environmental organizations are against ethanol for a variety of reasons. http://hoosier.sierraclub.org/chapter/n0009.html It was put in place by legislators and lobbyists from corn producing states and the lobby very effectively promoted the idea that it was "good for the environment," making opposition to it political suicide. Now that the facts are more widely known I think (hope?) the vote would have gone differently.
And BTW, Al Gore never actually claimed to have invented the internet, he merely claimed to have been an early supporter of technology, including the R&D that eventually led to it (which he was). http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
Vint Cerf, the "father of the internet" said "Al Gore had seen what happened with the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956, which his father introduced as a military bill. It was very powerful. Housing went up, suburban boom happened, everybody became mobile. Al was attuned to the power of networking much more than any of his elective colleagues. His initiatives led directly to the commercialization of the Internet. So he really does deserve credit." http://www.esquire.com/print-this/wh...vint-cerf-0508
Most environmental organizations are against ethanol for a variety of reasons. http://hoosier.sierraclub.org/chapter/n0009.html It was put in place by legislators and lobbyists from corn producing states and the lobby very effectively promoted the idea that it was "good for the environment," making opposition to it political suicide. Now that the facts are more widely known I think (hope?) the vote would have gone differently.
And BTW, Al Gore never actually claimed to have invented the internet, he merely claimed to have been an early supporter of technology, including the R&D that eventually led to it (which he was). http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
Vint Cerf, the "father of the internet" said "Al Gore had seen what happened with the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956, which his father introduced as a military bill. It was very powerful. Housing went up, suburban boom happened, everybody became mobile. Al was attuned to the power of networking much more than any of his elective colleagues. His initiatives led directly to the commercialization of the Internet. So he really does deserve credit." http://www.esquire.com/print-this/wh...vint-cerf-0508
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: right down from the FloraBama
Industry hype all over the net. Show me the relevant reactions. The one oxygen atom in ethanl could just as easily produce water.
Sorry to be so aggressive, but your comments are a straight clip and past from the Ethanol industry website. Currently it takes more energy to produce ethanol than is in the final product. And for this we pay the same price and get reduced gas mileage.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: South of Raleigh, and west of the coast, NC.
From Thunder Press' Kip Woodring tech article....http://www.thunderpress.net/MONTH_AR...headMemo.shtml
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