dropped helmet
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From:
RE: dropped helmet
ORIGINAL: sedbiker62
I once heard that after a drop, no matter how insignifacant, the moleculer structure of the binding inner structure of the self depricating macro stress relief cells all relocate to the temperal lobe area of the cephalic structure, thus creating in essence a kinetic mass force proportional to and equivalent of a Coleoptera Scarabaeidae (June bug) traveling at warp 6 @ -42 Kelvin and hitting you square in the lip. It is a known medical factoid that your temperal lobe would not withstand this impact upon the second such dropping of your brain bucket. Particularly with your head in it. Just my opinion.
Steve[sm=icon_rock.gif]
I once heard that after a drop, no matter how insignifacant, the moleculer structure of the binding inner structure of the self depricating macro stress relief cells all relocate to the temperal lobe area of the cephalic structure, thus creating in essence a kinetic mass force proportional to and equivalent of a Coleoptera Scarabaeidae (June bug) traveling at warp 6 @ -42 Kelvin and hitting you square in the lip. It is a known medical factoid that your temperal lobe would not withstand this impact upon the second such dropping of your brain bucket. Particularly with your head in it. Just my opinion.
Steve[sm=icon_rock.gif]
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From:
RE: dropped helmet
ORIGINAL: BBDeluxe
"urban myth."
Dale Ehrnhardt would have internally decapitated himself in his crash even if he wasn't wearing a helmet. But, as pointed out, being a restrained driver is different than being a motorcyclist.
Further, helmets do more than just prevent fractures. They help (but do not eliminate) modify the rate of deceleration of the skull AND more widely distribute a force that is applied in an impact, often turning a focal force to the skull to a global force around the skull. Very often the result is the difference between the rider having a concussion or brain injury (without a skull fracture, I might add) vs. getting up and walking away without even a headache.
You are correct about full face helmets preventing facial injuries. And 75% of crashes that result in helmet strikes have strikes in the facial area. MANY crashes do not result in a helmet strike at all, but the ones that do........
How do I know this stuff?
I am one of the surgical specialists that riders who crash and get taken to the ER get to see. I study this stuff all the time, not only because it is my surgical specialty, but because I ride...and I ride a lot.
I am not saying you shouldn't wear a skid lid if you want to, BUT I would prefer that you do it with the correct information in hand. If you wear one because you find them more comfortable and better looking, no problem. But PLEASE do not profess that they are safer because they absolutely are NOT.
Finally, the problem with reading things and going "Gee, that makes sense.........." is that sometimes it appears to. But that doesn't mean it plays out that way in reality when all perspectives are applied. Let's look at the riders who ride the fastest and crash the most: motorcycle roadracers (Nicky Hayden, and all the MotoGP boys). Have you ever heard of a single one of them, EVER crashing and having a cervical spinal cord injury? No. Wayne Rainey had an odd spinal fracture yers ago that was low and left him as a parapalegic. There was an AMA racer Vincent Haskovec last year who had a spinal fracture because he ran into a barrir. These were not helmet related. Shikano crashed last year at over 200 mph, rolled and tumbled and hit his full face Arai helmet several times before stopping. No spinal injuries, no concussion. He had an ankle injury if I recall correctly.
No urban myths, please.
Ride how you like, enjoy and remain crash free, y'all.
Bones
"urban myth."
Dale Ehrnhardt would have internally decapitated himself in his crash even if he wasn't wearing a helmet. But, as pointed out, being a restrained driver is different than being a motorcyclist.
Further, helmets do more than just prevent fractures. They help (but do not eliminate) modify the rate of deceleration of the skull AND more widely distribute a force that is applied in an impact, often turning a focal force to the skull to a global force around the skull. Very often the result is the difference between the rider having a concussion or brain injury (without a skull fracture, I might add) vs. getting up and walking away without even a headache.
You are correct about full face helmets preventing facial injuries. And 75% of crashes that result in helmet strikes have strikes in the facial area. MANY crashes do not result in a helmet strike at all, but the ones that do........
How do I know this stuff?
I am one of the surgical specialists that riders who crash and get taken to the ER get to see. I study this stuff all the time, not only because it is my surgical specialty, but because I ride...and I ride a lot.
I am not saying you shouldn't wear a skid lid if you want to, BUT I would prefer that you do it with the correct information in hand. If you wear one because you find them more comfortable and better looking, no problem. But PLEASE do not profess that they are safer because they absolutely are NOT.
Finally, the problem with reading things and going "Gee, that makes sense.........." is that sometimes it appears to. But that doesn't mean it plays out that way in reality when all perspectives are applied. Let's look at the riders who ride the fastest and crash the most: motorcycle roadracers (Nicky Hayden, and all the MotoGP boys). Have you ever heard of a single one of them, EVER crashing and having a cervical spinal cord injury? No. Wayne Rainey had an odd spinal fracture yers ago that was low and left him as a parapalegic. There was an AMA racer Vincent Haskovec last year who had a spinal fracture because he ran into a barrir. These were not helmet related. Shikano crashed last year at over 200 mph, rolled and tumbled and hit his full face Arai helmet several times before stopping. No spinal injuries, no concussion. He had an ankle injury if I recall correctly.
No urban myths, please.
Ride how you like, enjoy and remain crash free, y'all.
Bones
2. I said NASCAR came to these conclusions not me and I did not say DE should not have worn a helmet but the NASCAR began securing the helmets so they did not cause spinal injury after his death.
3. You agree with me that the helmet essentially only helps with point of contact injuries. maybe you misunderstood what I said. The rate that a helmet modifies deceleration is tiny.
4. the kind of crash suffered racing is very different from the kind of crash suffered by most road riders that result in sever injury and death. They are not skidding crashes but crashes with other vehicles and objects causing sudden deceleration for which there are tons of studies coming to teh same conclusions I posted. If you do what you say you do you should be very well aware of that. A sudden deceleration causes the neck to whiplash. Road riders are often catapulted or hung up on handle bars in crashes. Racers are also generally outfitted differently and racing in controled enviroments. Comparing race injuries to road injuries is apples and oranges.
5. No rider will remain "Crash Free" if they ride enough over the course of their lives. This is why I do wear a helmet., but one that is less likely to cause a neck injury. I do not wear a skid lid but I also do not wear a full
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
From: Burbank, CA
RE: dropped helmet
ORIGINAL: Stucarius
6. It is a statistical fact that in states with no helmet law there are fewer moto accidents resulting in paralysis. Read what ever you want into that.
Anyway the original discussion was dropping helmets which so far I do not see any evidence concerning legitimate damage or risk.
6. It is a statistical fact that in states with no helmet law there are fewer moto accidents resulting in paralysis. Read what ever you want into that.
Anyway the original discussion was dropping helmets which so far I do not see any evidence concerning legitimate damage or risk.
Edit: Well here's one i could fine pretty quick. It is interesting reading
http://www.ncrider.com/Truth_About_H...1_10-22-04.htm
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From:
RE: dropped helmet
It's always been my understanding that lids were designed like the crumple zones on cars. How much absorbtion is involved in a drop I have no idea. I will say this I have dropped ,thrown, and crashed (dropped and thrown more times than I can count) and the only time I've replaced a helmet was when some lowlife stole one off my bike a couple of years back(had that helmet for 20 years). I guess its just personal belief in what ya read
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From:
RE: dropped helmet
Two things:
1. Re the thread topic.........here is my opinion, BUT it is only my opinion and not based on any real data. I think the "I have been told" part about getting a new helmet after dropping it from a few inches or even a foot is propagated by helmet manufacturers and or sales. It is easy to do the math. But, obviously, if you see a chip or crack, then it is time. The "five year rule" is more related to deterioration of the liner material. And that stuff does deteriorate over time. Just my opinion.
2. Stucarius: I am not sure I understand #1 in your last post. I wasn't sure if you were suggesting I list more credentials so you might have a better bearing on whether I know what I am talking about or if you are saying that the credentials don't matter, regardless. Assuming the former, I am an M.D. who trained in general surgery before completing my surgical specialty training and that training included quite a bit of time on the trauma service. Some of that training was also on the neurosurgery service. I have been on the trauma call schedule at the medical centers at which I have practiced since completing residency training (6 years of surgical training in my case). I have published chapters in well recognized surgical textbooks, but only one of those had to do with trauma (the others had mostly to do with reconstructive surgery topics). I have a faculty position at a major University and continue to lecture regularly, though less the last couple of years. I do lecture to EMT's and paramedics specifically on trauma as it relates to motorcycle crashes. I can be more specific if you want me to.
My only point here is to suggest that at least with THIS particular topic, I really think I do know what I am talking about, know the medical literature, have spent a LOT of time over the years looking at the data and how the statistics are generated and interpreted. And I care deeply about this issue, not only as a doctor, but as a rider.
I am NOT saying I know more than anyone else here about riding or wrenching, but I guess I am saying that I know more about this specific topic. I have devoted a lot of my life to it. We can agree to disagree I guess. I just hate to see the wrong information disseminated. That's all.
I offer this in the nicest way, and not with any hard feelings.
Bones
1. Re the thread topic.........here is my opinion, BUT it is only my opinion and not based on any real data. I think the "I have been told" part about getting a new helmet after dropping it from a few inches or even a foot is propagated by helmet manufacturers and or sales. It is easy to do the math. But, obviously, if you see a chip or crack, then it is time. The "five year rule" is more related to deterioration of the liner material. And that stuff does deteriorate over time. Just my opinion.
2. Stucarius: I am not sure I understand #1 in your last post. I wasn't sure if you were suggesting I list more credentials so you might have a better bearing on whether I know what I am talking about or if you are saying that the credentials don't matter, regardless. Assuming the former, I am an M.D. who trained in general surgery before completing my surgical specialty training and that training included quite a bit of time on the trauma service. Some of that training was also on the neurosurgery service. I have been on the trauma call schedule at the medical centers at which I have practiced since completing residency training (6 years of surgical training in my case). I have published chapters in well recognized surgical textbooks, but only one of those had to do with trauma (the others had mostly to do with reconstructive surgery topics). I have a faculty position at a major University and continue to lecture regularly, though less the last couple of years. I do lecture to EMT's and paramedics specifically on trauma as it relates to motorcycle crashes. I can be more specific if you want me to.
My only point here is to suggest that at least with THIS particular topic, I really think I do know what I am talking about, know the medical literature, have spent a LOT of time over the years looking at the data and how the statistics are generated and interpreted. And I care deeply about this issue, not only as a doctor, but as a rider.
I am NOT saying I know more than anyone else here about riding or wrenching, but I guess I am saying that I know more about this specific topic. I have devoted a lot of my life to it. We can agree to disagree I guess. I just hate to see the wrong information disseminated. That's all.
I offer this in the nicest way, and not with any hard feelings.
Bones
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 1
From: North Jersey
RE: dropped helmet
The short answer? No. Not true. Back in my salad days I rode and raced dirt bikes alot. I must have bounced my helmet of God knows how many objects at ground level, tree level, and all points in between. Used the same helmet for........years, now that I think about it. Should it have been replaced? Maybe. But no ill effects resulted. I think an impact more significant than just falling from the bars would be neccesary to damage the helmet to the point of having to be replaced. There is no scientific analysis here, just alot of experience making my mellon ricochet off various things that either would not get out of the way or I could not get around. Has it had a detrimental effect on me? Depends on who you ask.
