that's a 2009 catalog . i might have missed where it says they're compliant with 2010 standards (and please correct me if i did) , but unless they do , that link is totally irrelevant to this discussion

 

http://www.starmotorcycles.com/star/...6/0/specs.aspx


This one should show a Mikuni CV carb but it was the water cooled I was looking at, will go back and look at the big air cooled. I don't know one Yamaha from the next the big air cooled may be EFI.

 

Yep! looks like the big air cooled, 113 Cu. In. does have the EFI!

http://www.starmotorcycles.com/star/...4/0/specs.aspx


It must be a cu. in thing! the 1348 CC water cooled had the carb! Still it looks like that would be close to your old 88 or the 96, why did Harley pull our carb option in 07.

I mean I did the header without the cat, XIED's until I can get out from under warranty. I'll do the TTS tune after I dump that EPA CAM.

Old days, did my mods, kept changing jets until the plugs browned out and was good to go. You gotta be some kind of diagnostic freak to fool with the ECM Controlled EFI now.

Back to the original intent and to answer the guy who put the baseball card in the old schwinn bicycle spokes! It aint all about the sound, when you are sitting in traffic on hot days and the temp hand goes over 300 and the EITMS keeps kicking in, that's hot.

The sync oil gives me a little protection but they are going to temps to where even sync breaks down. My early EVO's with the right kind of maintenance will go 80, 100 thousand before you have to break into them.

The big Cu. In. Harley's with the cats won't turn these kind of miles or nothing near that, to damn much heat. I'm talking the hot days in traffic, they are ok in the wind but you do have to take one down town everynow and then!

I went to 245 after dumping the Cat during long term Idle, with a Jagg 10 row with the fan and a parade fan! The EITMS don't even kick in now!

L.A. Police DEPT. just went with BMW's, they got to have something that will hold up in traffic conditions! That is over 4000 bikes!

I hate to see the municipalities on foreign bikes, Harley can't afford to surrender this market to them either. I want to see the brand survive and know they are working on it but would like to see them come up with something other than Water Cooled that leave the CAT in the Headpipe.

I am however encourged that so many are down with the CATS, it may just be the old guys who are doing the bitchin! The demographic may have changed, the baby boomers may not own Harley anymore and that will be a good thing. Like someone said, the CATS are supposed to be left on the bikes!

May be best to see how all the big baggers make it through the summer of 2010, most were sold during the fall and winter, spring "if it ever gets here" and have not went through their first hot months.

If they are but minimum complaints with the heat then the CATS will be a non issue!

 

Why do you think Harley engine have to be air cooled to sound a certain way? I would like to have cleaner air and would not have any problems having a liquid cooled engine. Besides, I think it inevitable that Harley go to liquid cooled engines. Even if they did, it would take several model years to phase in with lots of parts available for air cooled bikes.

 

The 2007 TC96 motor met the 2010 regulations per news release that HD put out at that time.

They are now adding cats to some and as time goes on, they will go into all the families.

I think it is the riders that should unit and get their reps to pass an exemption to the EPA rules to allow all air cooled motors at the 07 level.

Remember they are already taking about your lawn mower, garden tractor, portable generator, snow blower, gas powered dewatering pump and other equipment. EPA claims these little motors are more polluting than cars.

This whole Co2 is completely bogus. Go after the politicians. This next election may present the best opportunity do get ride of many of the long time scum bags.

 

The knife and fork configuration, both rods on the same throw give the Harley it's signature sound. It comes from the bottom end! Water cooling will not effect the sound, even if they just water cool the heads.

The need to water cool comes from the Cat's holding in all that heat in the exhaust system. If you just water cool to solve the heat problem and leave the Cat's in the headpipe you do kill the sound!

The bike can be water cooled or air cooled and still sound the same! However the older cams gave you some of the sound plus the free flowing exhaust. You plug up the exhaust, water cooled, air cooled you lose the sound. I do not mean loud, a Harley has a decent sound with just slipons, you don't have to have straight pipes.

It don't hurt a metric to have cats or to water cool, they sound like crap anyway and part of what gives them their sales is not the sound or the mystique, even though about all try to copy Harley. One was even sued for copyright violation or threatened to because they copied the Harley sound.

How can Harley be so cognizant of the signature sound to the point of taking another manufacture to court for copying it and then kill that sound! A 10 year old can tell you the difference between a Harley and a metric or other foreign brand by the sound. The old knife and fork bottom end is inefficient and the metrics run the piston rods on different throws, have the more efficient engine but I buy the Harley for the engine they designed over 50 years ago.

Can't stick a cat on that type of Air Cooled engine, the bottom ends are still good, get a lot of oil splash. The heads are taking a beating, different rate of thermal expansion and contraction because of the heat difference between the heads and the block. An IR gun on those heads will give you some scary numbers. The Cats glow dull red in the dark and turn the pipes blue all the way from the cat to the heads. To hot and holding in to much heat! Yes they will have to water cool! No that won't effect the sound but leaving that cat in the headpipes and mufflers will change the sound. Mufflers are easy, headpipes are more problematic.

EPA will go after the muffler and header pipe aftermarket people guaranteed within two years, wait for it!

 

Watercooling alone will not change the sound of the single crankpin Harley engine, unless....they find it necessary to change from the 45 degree design to a 50 degree design to accomodate the water jackets in the cylinders and heads...in which case it may sound more like the 50 degree single crankpin Victory.

Tech23

 

I ride a 91. That baby will run on leaded gas!!!

 

Now that would PO the tree huggers!

 

I feel like getting out my old 2-stroke suzuki 250 and riding in the snow, since ya'll brought up smoking machines!