The problems in this economy are too complex to point out one villain. Personally, I think the government is too big and most taxes are evil. I want to pay some taxes, we can do some things better collectivity than individually, build roads, have police, fire fighters, military, and I like the idea if the plane I'm on crashes into the mountains that people will come looking for us and try to help us. I don't like paying for those too stupid or lazy to work. Stupid girls who make babies with ******** guys that can't and won't help support them. I don't like the unions that won't let Baker Marine ( I worked there in Ingleside Texas ) fire a crane operator who brings pot to smoke on his lunch break!! Several years ago my now ex ran a Subway sandwich shop. The people would call her during our dinner and say the waste basket is full and they have garbage to throw away, what should they do!!?? It's slow and everythings done, can they leave early? The next morning the place was a filth pit and nothing was ready to open the store, and they all bitched because they had small checks from not working many hours. Now, a lot of good people can't find work. If you read the article about how Harley handled the Buell brand, they really made some stupid choices that cost them huge amounts of money. So, they deserve some blame themselves. The unions deserve some blame and the people who always vote for more taxes, more regulation, yes us the general population is ( in general not specifically the board members here ) so stupid they will drill holes in the bottom of their boat then bitch because the ****** is sinking while they continue to drill more holes. Noname

 

That is total BS

 

+1 Plenty of American workers who would love to have those jobs and not need the union to buld a quality bike. Most Southern states wouldn't tax the MoCo to death either like Wisconsin does. If the state cut taxes to zero then nobody would lose their jobs. But owning a manufacturing company up in the midwest is no longer a good deal. Ohio is worse.

 

Wow. IMHO, I'm a'feared our manufacturing problems are much more involved than simply Unions. This country is fast becoming VERY anti-industry with its absurd ecology restrictions/laws (read EPA), heavy taxation, laws, laws, and more laws that cost industries untold $$ trying to compete. Many are giving up and those not shutting down completely are moving out.

We (USA) are being gutted from the inside.

 

LAMing
you are right on. the enemy is within, particulary the "big cigars" . what's wrong with everyone delivering pizzas or fixing our cell phone???
on another note, Hd senior management could have improved the product to compete but all they were worried about was their stock options that they can cash out walk away from the results of their substandard leadership.

 

I grew up in Pittsburgh in the '40s and 50s when the steel industry was the engine that drove the local economy. When that industry shut down, all those overpaid union steelworkers went out of the workforce and never returned. It took several generations for Pittsburgh to rebuild itself and its economy. The same is now happening in Michigan and all over the country. Manufacturing was the engine that drove the post-WWII economy and made the US into what it became. Not the case now. The largest US employers at the moment (according to Fortune magazine) are:

1. The US Government - over 2,000,000
2. Wal-Mart - 1,800,000
3. McDonalds - 447,000
4. UPS - 407,000
and on down.

Note that none of these actually make anything. The same holds true for the majority of the 50 largest employers. So, where are the new high-paying jobs going to come from? Not here in the US, that's for sure, unless there's some breakthrough in some new technology, but that doesn't seem likely either.

So, companies like Harley-Davidson will hang on as long as they can, catering to a shrinking audience of buyers who can afford their products. Sooner or later, though, restructuring and relocating to other non-union states will run its course and they will be left with no other option than to relocate to another country. Of course, that won't matter then because the market for their products will be in other countries as well. This was brought home to me the other day when I read that the largest US manufacturer of high-tech solar panels (the new Green economy) just opened a major new factory in . . . China. Why? Because as they said, "we want to build the products where the customers are."

If this is all too negative, it's only because I, like many others on this forum, lived through the golden age of America and mourn its passisng. My advice to my grandchildren is to learn to speak Mandarin, and to be prepared to move to another country. Or at least to buy some property in another country like Costa Rica or elsewhere as a safety valve for the time when the US finally descends to Third World status, which time may not be too far off.

 

It was the fat-cat CEO's who ruined the auto industry, not the working stiffs. I notice H-D made a billion dollars a couple of years ago. Weren't they unionized then? Is the new H-D CEO taking a 50% pay cut to help out the company?

 

Don't blame the union for the auto industry they are not the ones who designed the junk cars in the 80's and 90's they just put the cars together with the parts they were given.

 

Don't fear. Obama will take over Harley and give it to the union like he did GM.

 

There are always two signatures on a contract. Just like pro sports. The owners are just as much to blame. Were it not for unions in north america, there would never have been a middle class. Sometimes they can be a pain in the *** but they are not the reason companies find themselves in the situation they're in. Some just find it easy to blame them. If we were all making minimum wage, we wouldn't be riding these bikes, or paying mortgages. For some, the only reason they make a decent non union wage, is because of the unions have set the bar.