harley davidsons aging biker problem
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It's not so much about the rub thing anymore that was a 80's and early 90's thing when HD started becoming a more mainstream and available product for everyone instead of the core group of riders who really lived the lifestyle and rode Harleys at the time .
Those of us who paid our dues in time and sometimes blood did take offense to the new breed peacocks believing they had become part of the culture by virtue of a purchase .
Like it or not not everyone who rides a Harley is a biker as much as most really want to be one in there own mind . I can't tell you just exactly what makes one a biker but I can tell what doesn't and just owning a harley doesn't .
Bikers are getting rare , Harley riders are a dime a dozen just look around and this isn't meant as a slam to anyone it's just the way it is . The old lifestyle is fading to nothing fast .
Those of us who paid our dues in time and sometimes blood did take offense to the new breed peacocks believing they had become part of the culture by virtue of a purchase .
Like it or not not everyone who rides a Harley is a biker as much as most really want to be one in there own mind . I can't tell you just exactly what makes one a biker but I can tell what doesn't and just owning a harley doesn't .
Bikers are getting rare , Harley riders are a dime a dozen just look around and this isn't meant as a slam to anyone it's just the way it is . The old lifestyle is fading to nothing fast .
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+1
The appellation of "biker" was already negative when I started riding in 1965. Admittedly I was in the military at the time, and "paid my dues" in time, sweat and blood in a far different way for a far different cause.
I still don't consider myself a "biker" and consider the term an insult. I'm a motorcyclist, just like all the other two motorized two wheelers out there. No more. No less.
Last edited by Strato-S-fear; Oct 17, 2010 at 01:27 PM.
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The simple fact of the matter is that HD's core demographic is slipping into old age, with very limited economic ability or future prospects to continue the purchase of discretionary luxury items. HD's decreasing sales volumes demonstrate that fact very clearly to the people that place their funds into good investments with strong prospects of good returns on such investments.
And though there are indeed younger riders entering the market there just aren't enough to justify the investment community's continued interest in HD, despite its iconic status. It doesn't matter if the writers of these articles have ever ridden any motorcycle, let alone a Harley Davidson, the sagging sales numbers and the economic decline of the aging key HD purchasers do not bode well for the Motor Company. If increasingly scarce investment capital continues to flow away from HD, and the sales continue to tumble, new product development and market retention won't occur.
Now, you can point out exceptions to any statistical database...the 75 year old man that buys a new ultra, or the 20 year old that buys a used sporty with the intention of eventually buying a new Harley someday...but these are notable BECAUSE they're exceptions...statistical outliers, not something a major company (and the investment community) can build a future on. The boomers are the main HD market, are economically hurting, and slowly heading to the marble orchard.
The company will either shrink to become a ghost of what it has been (and that will satisfy the people who decry the entry of the RUB's and their contamination of a so-called lifestyle), or it will have to branch into something that attract younger buyers (which will **** the hardcore HD owners off.....and worse case, send the company into some pretty weird diversifications....you know...like making bowling ***** and such).
And though there are indeed younger riders entering the market there just aren't enough to justify the investment community's continued interest in HD, despite its iconic status. It doesn't matter if the writers of these articles have ever ridden any motorcycle, let alone a Harley Davidson, the sagging sales numbers and the economic decline of the aging key HD purchasers do not bode well for the Motor Company. If increasingly scarce investment capital continues to flow away from HD, and the sales continue to tumble, new product development and market retention won't occur.
Now, you can point out exceptions to any statistical database...the 75 year old man that buys a new ultra, or the 20 year old that buys a used sporty with the intention of eventually buying a new Harley someday...but these are notable BECAUSE they're exceptions...statistical outliers, not something a major company (and the investment community) can build a future on. The boomers are the main HD market, are economically hurting, and slowly heading to the marble orchard.
The company will either shrink to become a ghost of what it has been (and that will satisfy the people who decry the entry of the RUB's and their contamination of a so-called lifestyle), or it will have to branch into something that attract younger buyers (which will **** the hardcore HD owners off.....and worse case, send the company into some pretty weird diversifications....you know...like making bowling ***** and such).
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From: Niles Canyon Ca.
+1
The appellation of "biker" was already negative when I started riding in 1965. Admittedly I was in the military at the time, and "paid my dues" in time, sweat and blood in a far different way for a far different cause.
I still don't consider myself a "biker" and consider the term an insult. I'm a motorcyclist, just like all the other two motorized two wheelers out there. No more. No less.
The appellation of "biker" was already negative when I started riding in 1965. Admittedly I was in the military at the time, and "paid my dues" in time, sweat and blood in a far different way for a far different cause.
I still don't consider myself a "biker" and consider the term an insult. I'm a motorcyclist, just like all the other two motorized two wheelers out there. No more. No less.
Not all of the misfits are criminal and you know it how many did you know while you were playing for Uncle Sam ? They are always looked down upon or cast in a bad light because we can't or won't conform to someone else's idea of acceptable behavior or lifestyle .
Funny thing " Bikers & Hippies " started becoming news and an item around the same general time in history . While being portrayed as polar opposites they had a very common core , a group of people who didn't want to accept what the world was trying to shove down their throats . Best quote of all time was Jack Nicholson's fireside freedom dialog in EasyRider , nailed that one to the wall hard all of which was and still is very true .
Just like being a cop at one time being a scooter tramp wasn't a bad thing , but that small percentage of f*ck ups gave everybody a bad name tell me you didn't know some guys who had no business having a badge and I'll call you liar .
1% ers make up a portion of the lifestyle , they just made the best news and that's too bad they are the dark side of it but not all by a long shot .
Last edited by TwiZted Biker; Oct 17, 2010 at 02:24 PM.
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+1
The appellation of "biker" was already negative when I started riding in 1965. Admittedly I was in the military at the time, and "paid my dues" in time, sweat and blood in a far different way for a far different cause.
I still don't consider myself a "biker" and consider the term an insult. I'm a motorcyclist, just like all the other two motorized two wheelers out there. No more. No less.
The appellation of "biker" was already negative when I started riding in 1965. Admittedly I was in the military at the time, and "paid my dues" in time, sweat and blood in a far different way for a far different cause.
I still don't consider myself a "biker" and consider the term an insult. I'm a motorcyclist, just like all the other two motorized two wheelers out there. No more. No less.
The old lifestyle is fading to nothing fast .
Last edited by Faast Ed; Oct 17, 2010 at 03:41 PM.
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From: Niles Canyon Ca.
Plus when your 20 miles outside of town and Arlen Ness's little caravan is off to the side and they are pulling the bikes out of the horse trailer and all his pretty boy tag a longs are squatting on the side of the road with a rag trying to dust their pants so it looks like they road from somewhere it just doesn't seem right anymore . Got pictures and no I won't post them , that would pop WAY too many bubbles in here .
Lifestyle I'm referring to has nothing to do with a brand name or iconic places like Sturgis . It's about a common thread or mind set of a certain personality type and I believe just that certain spot in history that's come and gone . I've known bikers who ride 250cc bikes on 3 continents it isn't about harleys & the latest MOCO leathers & bling . I think this is where everybody completely loses the translation not everyone is made that way that,s all , same as not everyone can be a doctor , an actor , a great politician , ect we may want to be but .. . This make any sense ? While we all may share a love of the bike time and the world has evovled pass the time of the " Biker " for all of us .
Last edited by TwiZted Biker; Oct 17, 2010 at 04:37 PM.
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My first time there were only 17,000 of us and you could still camp in city park . My last time was 1990 and it was so freaked out overpriced and overrun with idiots & cops I quit going .
Plus when your 20 miles outside of town and Arlen Ness's little caravan is off to the side and they are pulling the bikes out of the horse trailer and all his pretty boy tag a longs are squatting on the side of the road with a rag trying to dust their pants so it looks like they road from somewhere it just doesn't seem right anymore . Got pictures and no I won't post them , that would pop WAY too many bubbles in here .
Plus when your 20 miles outside of town and Arlen Ness's little caravan is off to the side and they are pulling the bikes out of the horse trailer and all his pretty boy tag a longs are squatting on the side of the road with a rag trying to dust their pants so it looks like they road from somewhere it just doesn't seem right anymore . Got pictures and no I won't post them , that would pop WAY too many bubbles in here .
Sure there are plenny of the shorts and funny hat tourists too!
Trailer parades all the way from Chicago to Sturgis. Etc, etc.
But in 2009 there were still plenty enough samples of real bikers.
All the way from Chicago to Sturgis were plenty enough real bikers loaded down with real luggage. It's not like they are "fading fast" becoming extinct.
But I won't argue the increase of rubs and posers.
And no one can argue the increase in total bike population, either.
That's part of moco's problem. Their market is saturated. Everybody and their grandpa has one already. No need to have as many factories anymore. (and of course the economy is killing them).
Just cuz we have a whole new breed joining us, don't mean we are disappearing! (Please, I will have nightmares if you disagree!!!!)
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From: Niles Canyon Ca.
This was posted by another member some time ago it hit something inside me and I thank the man for this , it says what I can't put into words about the old lifestyle dying out .
Originally Posted by frenchman View Post
Well, I remember, when I bought my first HD (Early shovel in a no name rigid frame), I started it up and all the guys around gave me thumbs up...
Fast forward, got a Twin cam, all stock. My wife looks at me and asks: is that thing running??????
Yes, there was a time when not every cubicle monkey, overworked family guy, weekend rebel or lawyer/dentist had to have a Harley. Bike weeks and parties weren't a family affair, brothers would pull over to help you out. A time when a disagreemetn was settled in the parking lot and nobody pulled a knife or called Johnny Law. A time when bros would ride left and right of you, at 15 MPH, and keep you in the middle because you were still shattered from the night before. A time when all those cute little smalltown ladies and the bad girls alike would give you a big smile at a red light. A time when all those nice citizens would get out of your way when you rode a motorcycle.
I had my time. I feel for the younger generation who wont.
It wasn't that bad yet when I quit going , the only tourists I saw was just 1 Leave it to Beaver family and dad had a white knuckled grip on the 17yr old daughters belt and the back of her pants going down main street .
Originally Posted by frenchman View Post
Well, I remember, when I bought my first HD (Early shovel in a no name rigid frame), I started it up and all the guys around gave me thumbs up...
Fast forward, got a Twin cam, all stock. My wife looks at me and asks: is that thing running??????
Yes, there was a time when not every cubicle monkey, overworked family guy, weekend rebel or lawyer/dentist had to have a Harley. Bike weeks and parties weren't a family affair, brothers would pull over to help you out. A time when a disagreemetn was settled in the parking lot and nobody pulled a knife or called Johnny Law. A time when bros would ride left and right of you, at 15 MPH, and keep you in the middle because you were still shattered from the night before. A time when all those cute little smalltown ladies and the bad girls alike would give you a big smile at a red light. A time when all those nice citizens would get out of your way when you rode a motorcycle.
I had my time. I feel for the younger generation who wont.
Funny! (but sad).
Sure there are plenny of the shorts and funny hat tourists too!
Sure there are plenny of the shorts and funny hat tourists too!
Last edited by TwiZted Biker; Oct 17, 2010 at 06:23 PM.
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I agree with Twizted and Krusty - consider the bikes themselves: back in the day, only Hog, or English Twin riders were the core of bikerdom, unless you were one of the BMW ironbutts for the most part. The jap bikes looked and sounded like crap or had no sound at all.
You went through the heigharchy, from hangaround to wannabee, to that 250 dirtbike to your first street ride, your Trumpets you chopped in your garage to your first Sporty, where you were initiated into the "inside" as a new type of hangaround until you got that big Twin that finally shut the guys up. Maybe you went to a club or rode with a wild bunch or, true to yourself, rode alone. You got older and wiser, learned to avoid the noisy types and sought out people who'd last.
Then life happened and things changed one way or another. People died off, you moved, the divorce took it all and you found yourself in a new world. Jap bikes started looking and sounding better, and even hogs started getting longer lifespans. People stopped hanging out as much and had kids, many quit drinkin', and you found yourself surrounded by people who don't even know how to change their oil.
REGARDLESS...there will still always be that kid on the corner who won't ever be happy unless he gets a bike. There will be that geek on the Beemer who doesn't care who you are, just if you wanna ride to the mountains this weekend. The guy down the street who lost his bike somehow and is eating white bread and bologna until he can buy another. Those guys who will sit all night talking about engines and wheel truing.
Some of those guys may be on a rat or even a $40,000 chrome queen. They might be all leather or plaid shirt and jeans, but they got one thing in common and always will: Bike Hearts.
There's a lot of the new breed diluting the pool, but they're still there: bikers.
You went through the heigharchy, from hangaround to wannabee, to that 250 dirtbike to your first street ride, your Trumpets you chopped in your garage to your first Sporty, where you were initiated into the "inside" as a new type of hangaround until you got that big Twin that finally shut the guys up. Maybe you went to a club or rode with a wild bunch or, true to yourself, rode alone. You got older and wiser, learned to avoid the noisy types and sought out people who'd last.
Then life happened and things changed one way or another. People died off, you moved, the divorce took it all and you found yourself in a new world. Jap bikes started looking and sounding better, and even hogs started getting longer lifespans. People stopped hanging out as much and had kids, many quit drinkin', and you found yourself surrounded by people who don't even know how to change their oil.
REGARDLESS...there will still always be that kid on the corner who won't ever be happy unless he gets a bike. There will be that geek on the Beemer who doesn't care who you are, just if you wanna ride to the mountains this weekend. The guy down the street who lost his bike somehow and is eating white bread and bologna until he can buy another. Those guys who will sit all night talking about engines and wheel truing.
Some of those guys may be on a rat or even a $40,000 chrome queen. They might be all leather or plaid shirt and jeans, but they got one thing in common and always will: Bike Hearts.
There's a lot of the new breed diluting the pool, but they're still there: bikers.
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These articles are so much crap,call whatever.The older I get the more aware I have become.The people that write this stuff are the same kinds of people that compile statistics,which have never meant a thing to me knowing all well it is Bull Crap!