countersteering help
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,615
Likes: 9
From: Escondido, CA
Now that you know what it is it's easy to overdo it. You've probably been doing it since getting on a bike. Practice is going to help you recognize how much input the bike needs to get around. Just keep it smooth for everyday riding and if you find yourself in a jam then you know how to get out of it with a little extra push.
Now go read up on target fixation and you'll have something else that'll improve your skills.
Now go read up on target fixation and you'll have something else that'll improve your skills.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 261
Likes: 3
From: Marquette MI.
Counter steering happens without even knowing it on most gradual turns. The technique can also be used more aggressively while in a turn or going straight when you need to avoid an obstacle or make a fast lane change. By pushing on the handle bar that you want the moto to go in will make it dip and turn in that direction. If you practice during regular riding it will become second nature when needed.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44,897
Likes: 29,875
From: PNW
Counter steering basically tricks you into leaning your bike and negotiating the turn properly. In a left turn you "pressure" the left bar forward. This causes the bike to (very) momentarily turn right. Centrifugal force causes the bike to lean left. Your brain immediately tells you to follow suit and steer left. At this point the bike is leaning left and you are actually steering left - very slightly. It is done the moment before turning and it disappears immediately once you are "engaged" in the turn. It is not done through the turn. Some may think that's what they are doing, but rest assured, they are not. Also, you can corner without counter steering by simply weighting and turning, but it actually takes more thought. Counter steering forces you to do it right, and once it becomes second nature, makes cornering more intuitive.
Here's a nice explanation (just click on the videos) -
http://obairlann.net/reaper/motorcyc...rsteering.html
Here's a nice explanation (just click on the videos) -
http://obairlann.net/reaper/motorcyc...rsteering.html
Last edited by nevada72; May 15, 2011 at 04:45 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 340
Likes: 4
From: Peach Bottom Pa.
A flat track racer does the same thing,,only he takes it to the extreme,,,,LOL,,,it's easy,,turn right to turn left,,,easy does it though,,,by turning right the bike will lean left,,,,it really takes the work out of riding once you perfect it,,,
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 3
From: Northwest Georgia
Counter steering basically tricks you into leaning your bike and negotiating the turn properly. In a left turn you "pressure" the left bar forward. This causes the bike to (very) momentarily turn right. Centrifugal force causes the bike to lean left. Your brain immediately tells you to follow suit and steer left. At this point the bike is leaning left and you are actually steering left - very slightly. It is done the moment before turning and it disappears immediately once you are "engaged" in the turn. It is not done through the turn. Some may think that's what they are doing, but rest assured, they are not. Also, you can corner without counter steering by simply weighting and turning, but it actually takes more thought. Counter steering forces you to do it right, and once it becomes second nature, makes cornering more intuitive.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,389
Likes: 26
From: Windham,Maine
Burnouts and hard riding on dirt roads gets the tail wagging you need to countersteer to keep the bike going straight ahead.Also never let up on the throttle if things get out of hand until the bike is tracking straight.You do the rear tire grabs traction and off the bike you go.No matter it takes practice and above all the willingness to do it.Once you master it you will be a lot more confident in those situations.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 11,240
Likes: 2,291
From: Lake Seminole
You are all saying the same thing, just in different ways.
Counter-steer is just that. If you want to go right in a hurry turn the handlebars left and to go left turn the bars right. You can say push the bars or pull the bars its the same thing.
When connering just look to where you want to exit. Lean in to the corner and you will exit there, where you are looking.
Counter- steering can and will save your life.
Counter-steer is just that. If you want to go right in a hurry turn the handlebars left and to go left turn the bars right. You can say push the bars or pull the bars its the same thing.
When connering just look to where you want to exit. Lean in to the corner and you will exit there, where you are looking.
Counter- steering can and will save your life.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44,897
Likes: 29,875
From: PNW
I disagree. I apply pressure, it leans the bike, and I hold the pressure until it's time to come out of the turn. At no point do I turn the wheel left on a left turn, and it doesn't turn left through any brain trick. It goes left because it leans the bike for as long as I hold it.
By itself, leaning the bike does not make it turn. That is simply done to counteract centrifugal force. Turning the wheel in the direction of the turn makes a bike turn.
If one were to project imaginary lines (for each tire) from above the rider to indicate the orientation of the tires relative to the arc of the turn, the rear tire would be at a tangent to the arc, so on it's own, it would exit the arc. The front tire would be facing left, albeit slightly, and following the arc.
If I understand you correctly, in your scenario, the front tire's line would be facing even more away from the arc than the rear tire. I promise you, if you are in a left turn and leaning left, and then pressure the left bar, you will have a very bad day
Counter steer to initiate, then steer. Simple.
This guy -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_L._Hough
has literally written the book(s) on this, and many related topics. My statements are based on his teachings and do not originate from me. That said, as they say, he has forgotten more about motorcycle safety and riding than I will ever know.
Last edited by nevada72; May 15, 2011 at 05:37 PM. Reason: clarity
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 3
From: Northwest Georgia
By itself, leaning the bike does not make it turn. That is simply done to counteract centrifugal force. Turning the wheel in the direction of the turn makes a bike turn.
If one were to project imaginary lines (for each tire) from above the rider to indicate the orientation of the tires relative to the arc of the turn, the rear tire would be at a tangent to the arc, so on it's own, it would exit the arc. The front tire would be facing left, albeit slightly, and following the arc.
If I understand you correctly, in your scenario, the front tire's line would be facing even more away from the arc than the rear tire. I promise you, if you are in a left turn and leaning left, and then pressure the left bar, you will have a very bad day
If one were to project imaginary lines (for each tire) from above the rider to indicate the orientation of the tires relative to the arc of the turn, the rear tire would be at a tangent to the arc, so on it's own, it would exit the arc. The front tire would be facing left, albeit slightly, and following the arc.
If I understand you correctly, in your scenario, the front tire's line would be facing even more away from the arc than the rear tire. I promise you, if you are in a left turn and leaning left, and then pressure the left bar, you will have a very bad day