Silly shifting question
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,255
Likes: 112
From: Florida
I love how you guys all think you have this "seat-of-the-pants shifting thing down pat. You might learn something if you actually had a tachometer on your bike. There are reasons even the best racers in the world all have tachometers in the vehicle or bike. Shifting by feel/sound is one of those scenarios that looks good on paper but can have serious consequences in real life. You can't always tell if you're lugging your engine, and you can't always tell if your at engine redline, just approaching it, or have gone past redline. Don't bet your engine on a faulty rev limiter. My rev limiter wouldn't allow the engine to get past 5500 rpm. Having replaced the module with an adjustable unit, it now goes right to 6700 rpm and pulls like hell doing it. For my style of riding it's best to know, not guess.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 27
From: Calgary eh
You seem to be the all knowing. I was taught, at a course, not by dr. Zeuss master of motorcycles, you pull in the clutch, use the brakes and as you slow you kick it down to the gear you would need to be in if you need to make a quick escape.
You make yourself look like more of an *** the more you post about how you know how everyone else rides.
Go polish some chrome or something and post pics here to regain your street cred, seems to work out well here for your types.
You make yourself look like more of an *** the more you post about how you know how everyone else rides.
Go polish some chrome or something and post pics here to regain your street cred, seems to work out well here for your types.
It's a safe way to ride. Just keep doing that. I didn't take a course. I got on a bike when I was 6 and tried to keep up to my brother. By the time I was a teenager I was motocrossing a few years after that winning, then moved to ice, flat track, cross country. Won 2 provincial championships. But WTF, If you say pull in the clutch apply brakes then that must work for all situations. I just never knew that before. Thanks.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
Aren't you the guy who told the OP to take a course, then take another, ride with a guy who never took a course for a couple years then go take another one?
You are the last person anyone should listen to here. News flash. Torque does not nor is it used to measure how fast a bike can stop, rpm will be inane in a stop.
You are the last person anyone should listen to here. News flash. Torque does not nor is it used to measure how fast a bike can stop, rpm will be inane in a stop.
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 84
From: Southern Maine / Seacoast NH
Thanks for that, little cloudy here as well and now stuck at work but hope to get out for a ride. Can't believe that I'm back on the road so quickly after the accident with the 48. I think their insurance company did an outstanding job I'd bet I was only off the road for two weeks. HD just released the title from the old one as well so I'll get the rest of the insurance money shortly.
Having a ball with this bike, going to be tough to not spend money on mods and get some good riding time in. Too bad my commute from home to work is only 2 miles.
Having a ball with this bike, going to be tough to not spend money on mods and get some good riding time in. Too bad my commute from home to work is only 2 miles.
Been riding my first Harley (and first bike in 18 years), an '02 1200 C (so no tach), since last September. It's got open pipes on it from the previous owner. So when I first started riding it, I was shifting pretty early as I wasn't accustomed to how loud it would be. I was upshifting to 2nd around 15-20, 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 and 5th at 50. While it wasn't lugging enough to make the bike shudder, after reading some, it appears the general consensus is the Sporty's like higher RPMs, so I started shifting higher. Now for a casual acceleration I shift to 2nd at 25, 3rd at 40, 4th around 55, and 5th when I get to cruise speed. And I'm comfortable with the sounds at these speeds.
Fast forward to Dealer Demo Day a couple weeks ago. Took out a Dyna Low Rider and a CVO Roadking. Both of these bikes were so much quieter and smoother than my sporty, I had VERY poor feel for when I should be shifting. I was hunting around for the tach, and trying to figure out what to do. By the end of the second demo ride I was starting to get sort of comfortable with it - but for me, I think I would have to decide to shift based on the visual feeling of speed, more than anything else, until I spent some time getting used to the sounds. It was just night and day different from my loud sporty...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
Aren't you the guy who told the OP to take a course, then take another, ride with a guy who never took a course for a couple years then go take another one?
You are the last person anyone should listen to here. News flash. Torque does not nor is it used to measure how fast a bike can stop, rpm will be inane in a stop.
You are the last person anyone should listen to here. News flash. Torque does not nor is it used to measure how fast a bike can stop, rpm will be inane in a stop.
To address the original question, when accelerating I like to shift so that my beginning rpms in the next gear is at the beginning of the power point in the torque curve. Shifting at about 3500 rpm works well on my TC88.
Last edited by MNPGRider; Jun 19, 2014 at 07:27 PM.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
Uh, actually, rpm's has a lot to do with stopping. It's called engine braking. When you shift to a lower gear and release the clutch with your throttle closed, your rpm's will rise, giving more engine braking, sometimes called "compression braking." I've always wondered about the posts where riders say they've worn out brake pads in 5,000 miles....they obviously are not downshifting as they approach a stop.
Nothing wrong with shifting down to slow to a slower mph or into a speed trap zone. But to stop, them courses the dr. Zeuss said to take he never did, they do not teach engine braking to stop the bike. Brakes stop, torque makes you go, and go faster.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
Dusty, I was an MSF instructor of the year, and I can assure you, engine braking is taught as part of the course. It is used in conjuction with the brakes, not instead of the brakes. Ask any semi driver....they do the same thing.
The phrase used in the MSF course is: "The purpose of a transmission is to match your engine speed with your road speed." By always being in the proper gear for any given speed, you not only have the benefit of engine braking, but you have the instant available power you may need to accelerate away from danger.
No where did I say to downshift to a gear that would cause your rear tire to skid when the clutch was released, nor did I say to use it instead of the brakes. By downshifting to too low of a gear at a given road speed and releasing the clutch will cause excessive rpms, and the rev limiter will be of no use in that situation, and an engine could easily blow.
The phrase used in the MSF course is: "The purpose of a transmission is to match your engine speed with your road speed." By always being in the proper gear for any given speed, you not only have the benefit of engine braking, but you have the instant available power you may need to accelerate away from danger.
No where did I say to downshift to a gear that would cause your rear tire to skid when the clutch was released, nor did I say to use it instead of the brakes. By downshifting to too low of a gear at a given road speed and releasing the clutch will cause excessive rpms, and the rev limiter will be of no use in that situation, and an engine could easily blow.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
Here is the page right out of my MSF instructor manual on how to properly come to a stop.
This is from the BASIC course. Nothing advanced about this.
This is from the BASIC course. Nothing advanced about this.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 68,021
Likes: 3,276
From:
Dusty, I was an MSF instructor of the year, and I can assure you, engine braking is taught as part of the course. It is used in conjuction with the brakes, not instead of the brakes. Ask any semi driver....they do the same thing.
The phrase used in the MSF course is: "The purpose of a transmission is to match your engine speed with your road speed." By always being in the proper gear for any given speed, you not only have the benefit of engine braking, but you have the instant available power you may need to accelerate away from danger.
No where did I say to downshift to a gear that would cause your rear tire to skid when the clutch was released, nor did I say to use it instead of the brakes. By downshifting to too low of a gear at a given road speed and releasing the clutch will cause excessive rpms, and the rev limiter will be of no use in that situation, and an engine could easily blow.
The phrase used in the MSF course is: "The purpose of a transmission is to match your engine speed with your road speed." By always being in the proper gear for any given speed, you not only have the benefit of engine braking, but you have the instant available power you may need to accelerate away from danger.
No where did I say to downshift to a gear that would cause your rear tire to skid when the clutch was released, nor did I say to use it instead of the brakes. By downshifting to too low of a gear at a given road speed and releasing the clutch will cause excessive rpms, and the rev limiter will be of no use in that situation, and an engine could easily blow.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,336
Likes: 67
From: SW Minnesota
Thank you springer for validating my comments. Those of us who grew up on farms dealt with manual transmissions on everything, tractors, trucks, pickups, even lawn mowers, and shifting properly is second nature, and we don't need a tach to do it, but it's nice to know what the rpms really are. When I took my CDL semi training I was amazed at how low of an RPM diesels run at....we never had a tach in our farm trucks.
My lady has an '04 Impala with the auto tranny that releases when you take your foot off the gas. For sh*ts and giggles one day, I decided to see how far it would coast. From 60 mph on flat land it was still rolling a mile later...Why? No engine braking at all.
My lady has an '04 Impala with the auto tranny that releases when you take your foot off the gas. For sh*ts and giggles one day, I decided to see how far it would coast. From 60 mph on flat land it was still rolling a mile later...Why? No engine braking at all.