Silly shifting question
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
Ok, I will give you a serious answer, since you're going to be a smart ***. First, 2000 and below is lugging, avoid that area.
Don't approach red line. It's called that for a reason. Red means danger. You can ask any 5 year old and they'll tell you that.
As for everything in between, it depends on how fast your going, the load on the bike, if you are going up hill or down, with the wind or against, how fast you're accelerating or decelerating.
Beginners like you are well advised to take a beginner riders course. Followed by and intermediate course, then ride with an experienced rider for a few years closely to learn how to ride safely, then move onto an advanced course. At that time you might be able to do it on your own.
Anyone that comes to an internet forum to ask such a dumb *** question should not be on the road.
Don't approach red line. It's called that for a reason. Red means danger. You can ask any 5 year old and they'll tell you that.
As for everything in between, it depends on how fast your going, the load on the bike, if you are going up hill or down, with the wind or against, how fast you're accelerating or decelerating.
Beginners like you are well advised to take a beginner riders course. Followed by and intermediate course, then ride with an experienced rider for a few years closely to learn how to ride safely, then move onto an advanced course. At that time you might be able to do it on your own.
Anyone that comes to an internet forum to ask such a dumb *** question should not be on the road.
How about you check your reading skills. I quoted post 45 for you, right above yours. Slow down read it word by word.
If you can not read, one could gather your riding skills are on par with your reading comprehension.
Now go to bed old timer. Them flat straight roads will be a challenge for you tomorrow.
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: BC, Canada
kind of an interesting debate, for my course we were taught never to use the engine braking in lower gears coming to a stop for several reasons.
what we were taught is to pull in the clutch and hold it in while you use front and rear breaks to stop the bike, but you down **** to keep the gear selection appropriate for the speed your going so if you have to do an emergency speed up you will have the proper gear selected.
now for why not to use the engine to break, because it the rear wheel and we all know the rear wheel is easy to lock up, so any gravel, sand, water, or painted lines that just happen to be there at the point most people will let there clutch out to fast could put the bike into a slide.
lots of people do it, I do once and a while until I am in the 3rd gear range, but also remember that breaks are cheaper than motors.
some one compared big rig engine breaking to bikes, that's just silly, since when did Harley start putting jakes on out motors? our motors don't have a lot of breaking power, but some, and they are definitely not designed to be a breaking system like a big rigs engine is.
Steve
what we were taught is to pull in the clutch and hold it in while you use front and rear breaks to stop the bike, but you down **** to keep the gear selection appropriate for the speed your going so if you have to do an emergency speed up you will have the proper gear selected.
now for why not to use the engine to break, because it the rear wheel and we all know the rear wheel is easy to lock up, so any gravel, sand, water, or painted lines that just happen to be there at the point most people will let there clutch out to fast could put the bike into a slide.
lots of people do it, I do once and a while until I am in the 3rd gear range, but also remember that breaks are cheaper than motors.
some one compared big rig engine breaking to bikes, that's just silly, since when did Harley start putting jakes on out motors? our motors don't have a lot of breaking power, but some, and they are definitely not designed to be a breaking system like a big rigs engine is.
Steve
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 27
From: Calgary eh
OMG. Dr Zeus? Wow that's flattering.
Here's the thing.... You turn your throttle off the engine will slow your bike. Turn it on the engine will accelerate the bike. You don't need brakes. My mom taught me that when I was a little kid, I've always remembered that and it's so true.
The op asked about switching gears and rpm. I'll say again in different terms. The lower limit is 2000 the upper limit is less than red line. Let's say 4800. Every thing in between is fair game. Switch where you like there are no rules. If you want a bit more spirited ride keep your rpms a bit higher. If you want to conserve gas keep them lower. Switch where it makes you happy and feels good. Just keep the rpm between the limits I mentioned above.
Here's the thing.... You turn your throttle off the engine will slow your bike. Turn it on the engine will accelerate the bike. You don't need brakes. My mom taught me that when I was a little kid, I've always remembered that and it's so true.
The op asked about switching gears and rpm. I'll say again in different terms. The lower limit is 2000 the upper limit is less than red line. Let's say 4800. Every thing in between is fair game. Switch where you like there are no rules. If you want a bit more spirited ride keep your rpms a bit higher. If you want to conserve gas keep them lower. Switch where it makes you happy and feels good. Just keep the rpm between the limits I mentioned above.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,842
Likes: 16,583
From: Wisconsin, USA
I shift by sound. Main time I use my tach is to avoid lugging. I usually don't run under 2300, flat road.
On an uphill grade, I might need higher RPMs, especially if 2up.
As far as downshifting, if I am coasting up to a light I hold the clutch in and downshift so I am in the right gear for my speed. If I need to stop faster, I will downshift through each gear, while blipping to match engine/gear. This will avoid wheel skipping, and premature tire wear.
Good read:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-no-blip.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showt...7552&styleid=9
On an uphill grade, I might need higher RPMs, especially if 2up.
As far as downshifting, if I am coasting up to a light I hold the clutch in and downshift so I am in the right gear for my speed. If I need to stop faster, I will downshift through each gear, while blipping to match engine/gear. This will avoid wheel skipping, and premature tire wear.
Good read:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-no-blip.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showt...7552&styleid=9
Last edited by Ron750; Jun 20, 2014 at 04:27 AM.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
As I stated earlier, there is a difference between slowing down to a stop (using engine braking and brakes) and emergency braking. In emergency braking you don't have time to be squeezing the clutch, shifting down, releasing, squeezing, shifting down, etc. But you can keep the clutch in and downshift while applying maximum braking!
That was a great link, Dusty! Thanks for posting it! Now, go back and read it!
I'll just use engine braking so I'll stop even faster!
Everyone knows that just getting off the throttle will cause you to slow down. Anyone who's driven a vehicle with a manual transmission knows you can get a greater effect by downshifting first. But I didn't say anything about it in my emergency braking discussion because it isn't effective. Consider that engine braking works on the rear wheel. If you want more braking from the rear wheel, then just press on the rear brake pedal a little more. That's simpler, smoother, and more precise than pausing in your shifting to first gear (because you aren't going to be caught dead in second) and releasing the clutch. And simple, smooth, and precise are things you want in motorcycling.
I'm not going to tell you I never use engine braking. If I need to downshift for a turn, it may be true that just easing out the clutch will give me all the braking I need for the turn. But in general, I use the brakes for braking, and I use the engine to go.
Everyone knows that just getting off the throttle will cause you to slow down. Anyone who's driven a vehicle with a manual transmission knows you can get a greater effect by downshifting first. But I didn't say anything about it in my emergency braking discussion because it isn't effective. Consider that engine braking works on the rear wheel. If you want more braking from the rear wheel, then just press on the rear brake pedal a little more. That's simpler, smoother, and more precise than pausing in your shifting to first gear (because you aren't going to be caught dead in second) and releasing the clutch. And simple, smooth, and precise are things you want in motorcycling.
I'm not going to tell you I never use engine braking. If I need to downshift for a turn, it may be true that just easing out the clutch will give me all the braking I need for the turn. But in general, I use the brakes for braking, and I use the engine to go.
Consider that engine braking works on the rear wheel. If you want more braking from the rear wheel, then just press on the rear brake pedal a little more.
That's simpler, smoother, and more precise than pausing in your shifting to first gear
Everything he says in that article is spot on to everything I have done in courses and what was taught to others by different instructors in courses they took. You are clearly lacking.
Last edited by Dusty Bones; Jun 20, 2014 at 10:24 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,842
Likes: 16,583
From: Wisconsin, USA
There ia a clear line between dumb *** and smart ***. You are clearly on the dumb side. If you just read that and learned it then that is one indicator. You should have learned it in your last course you took. Every experienced biker I know takes a course every 3-5 years because you can never learn enough. Guess guys like you are too billy bad *** and your street cred will go down with the other 70,000+ mile brake paders in your group. I see new riders every course learn how to brake, thank god they know better than to listen to you on a forum, with your 70,000 mile pads.
Since your dumb side gets the best of you, here is the part you ignored or forgot about.
Followed by this becaause the billy bad *** portion of your brain ignores common sense, let alone the right way to stop.
You need to take a starter course. Inform the instructor you make your brakes last 70,000+ miles by engine braking. See what he has in the way of extra instruction for ya.
Everything he says in that article is spot on to everything I have done in courses and what was taught to others by different instructors in courses they took. You are clearly lacking.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
The fella being "ad hominem" attacked made a claim engine braking is effective, safe and aids in stopping. Thats stupid. God help anyone who listens to him and does it in a curve for fear of going over the handle bars in a curve that needs to slow a bit, or on a slippery surface. How about in traffic when the car behind you grinds you into the pavement because they never seen your brake light.
To call him an idiot is being nice. Him and the other broke tools who tell others to take a course, but never did themself for some reason think telling people dangerous habits are more safe than doing it right. If they ever take a course the instructor will set them straight. For anyone reading that is a real noob or rookie that has not taken a course, go get in one NOW. Do not listen to the jake brakers and lay it down advice. It will get you killed.
Thats not ad hominem. I am telling him he is stupid. Made it pretty clear. He is the one that stated it with saying rpm is a braking tool. So lets see a rpm to speed braking chart and distance to zero with engine braking. They will have to do all the research themself. No such a thing exsists. Them idiots will kill themselves with the amount of time it will take to gather the info. I doubt they ride much. I am not going back but one guy said he has 70,000 miles on original pads and I believe he has an 06. Thats less than 10,000 miles a year. I did that from the start of the year to the end of march, and I was in MI at the start of february. Try that engine braking on snow, gravel, or sand. Watch what that underspin does to such highly (in)experienced bad asses. They will be right back here. Extolling the virtues of laying the bike down (if they live).
Last edited by Dusty Bones; Jun 21, 2014 at 07:19 AM.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,842
Likes: 16,583
From: Wisconsin, USA
They sell something called monkey butt powder for that chafed behind you got going on.
The fella being "ad hominem" attacked made a claim engine braking is effective, safe and aids in stopping. Thats stupid. God help anyone who listens to him and does it in a curve for fear of going over the handle bars in a curve that needs to slow a bit, or on a slippery surface. How about in traffic when the car behind you grinds you into the pavement because they never seen your brake light.
To call him an idiot is being nice. Him and the other broke tools who tell others to take a course, but never did themself for some reason think telling people dangerous habits are more safe than doing it right. If they ever take a course the instructor will set them straight. For anyone reading that is a real noob or rookie that has not taken a course, go get in one NOW. Do not listen to the jake brakers and lay it down advice. It will get you killed.
Thats not ad hominem. I am telling him he is stupid. Made it pretty clear. He is the one that stated it with saying rpm is a braking tool. So lets see a rpm to speed braking chart and distance to zero with engine braking. They will have to do all the research themself. No such a thing exsists. Them idiots will kill themselves with the amount of time it will take to gather the info. I doubt they ride much. I am not going back but one guy said he has 70,000 miles on original pads and I believe he has an 06. Thats less than 10,000 miles a year. I did that from the start of the year to the end of march, and I was in MI at the start of february. Try that engine braking on snow, gravel, or sand. Watch what that underspin does to such highly (in)experienced bad asses. They will be right back here. Extolling the virtues of laying the bike down (if they live).
Thanks for the advice on Monkey Butt, but I do quite well with compression underwear, and Gold Bond.
