Silly shifting question
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,486
Likes: 695
From: Huntington Beach, CA
You don't understand the difference between engine braking, and abrupt downshifting. Anybody that rides in the mountains knows you need to use some engine braking to avoid overheated brakes. When I use engine braking, I tap my brakes to warn I am slowing, or use in conjunction with braking. If I am riding aggressively in twisties I use braking in the straighitaway, and downshift before entering, to hold my speed down in the curve.....
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 16,271
Likes: 15,108
From: Somewhere SW
On a trip last weekend through some great roads in upstate NY this is what I found I was doing.
70 MPH shifted to 6th
60 MPH shifted to 5th
50 MPH shifted to 4th
40 MPH shifted to 3rd
First to second I cannot say what the speed/RPM were. If I was winding her out off the line shifted in the mid-high 3000's. If just accelerating casually probably shifted at 3000-3200. (I think)
70 MPH shifted to 6th
60 MPH shifted to 5th
50 MPH shifted to 4th
40 MPH shifted to 3rd
First to second I cannot say what the speed/RPM were. If I was winding her out off the line shifted in the mid-high 3000's. If just accelerating casually probably shifted at 3000-3200. (I think)
On freeways I don't hit 6th until I'm going 75 and cruise between 2400-2800 over 60mph, I'll down shift back to 5th at 60-65mph depending on traffic.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
You don't understand the difference between engine braking, and abrupt downshifting. Anybody that rides in the mountains knows you need to use some engine braking to avoid overheated brakes. When I use engine braking, I tap my brakes to warn I am slowing, or use in conjunction with braking. If I am riding aggressively in twisties I use braking in the straighitaway, and downshift before entering, to hold my speed down in the curve. I may or may not upshift on the acceleration past the apex. There are plenty of threads on this, including the one I referenced earlier on blipping.
Thanks for the advice on Monkey Butt, but I do quite well with compression underwear, and Gold Bond.
Thanks for the advice on Monkey Butt, but I do quite well with compression underwear, and Gold Bond.
He was not talking going down the backside of the continental divide. He was talking about stopping. Every instructor I met says if you want to brake with the rear tire, use the rear brake. For the people like him who say engine braking stops you faster, no it dont. It will never slow the spin of the tire like the brake will. The brake will never underspin the tire. The fella is off his rocker. He needs to take a course and tell an instructor his engine brakes the rear tire is better than the brakes can. Even to say it assists is stupid, because once again the engine can not brake as well as the brakes can, use the rear brake if you need to use the rear tire to STOP. He is talking about stopping. Read post 55. He says engine to stop. Stop not slow, not down a hill, not to keep his brakes from overheating. To stop. Incase you missed it go back to post 55. He says stop. Did you get it yet. Stopping is not slowing.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 4
From: MI
I will join in this game.
You sound like you are just standing behind someone pointing your finger saying "yeah, what he said".
You got anything to add? My guess is you use torque to stop and never took a course, but without more than a yeah what he said one line post no one will ever know.
You types are best off in the oil threads telling everyone to use scamsoil. Run along now.
The OP actually posted one of the more intelligent questions here. Despite all the road warriors calling him a newb he keeps his cool and asks great questions and the lugging engine braking tools call him inexperienced and dangerous. He hears people ligging their engine and obviously can feel his bike is best off shifting outside the lug zone and posted a question. You bily bad asses could learn more from him than anything you could teach even a complete noob.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 143
From: Palm Desert,CA
Another one liner.
I will join in this game.
You sound like you are just standing behind someone pointing your finger saying "yeah, what he said".
You got anything to add? My guess is you use torque to stop and never took a course, but without more than a yeah what he said one line post no one will ever know.
You types are best off in the oil threads telling everyone to use scamsoil. Run along now.
The OP actually posted one of the more intelligent questions here. Despite all the road warriors calling him a newb he keeps his cool and asks great questions and the lugging engine braking tools call him inexperienced and dangerous. He hears people ligging their engine and obviously can feel his bike is best off shifting outside the lug zone and posted a question. You bily bad asses could learn more from him than anything you could teach even a complete noob.
I will join in this game.
You sound like you are just standing behind someone pointing your finger saying "yeah, what he said".
You got anything to add? My guess is you use torque to stop and never took a course, but without more than a yeah what he said one line post no one will ever know.
You types are best off in the oil threads telling everyone to use scamsoil. Run along now.
The OP actually posted one of the more intelligent questions here. Despite all the road warriors calling him a newb he keeps his cool and asks great questions and the lugging engine braking tools call him inexperienced and dangerous. He hears people ligging their engine and obviously can feel his bike is best off shifting outside the lug zone and posted a question. You bily bad asses could learn more from him than anything you could teach even a complete noob.
Still I will say for whomever mentioned it a few times (it may have been you Dusty, as well as the others), that all of this has re-invigorated me to take some additional classes. Normally I take the basic safety course before I get back on the bike since it's always been with breaks of at least a 6 years in between, but I do see how taking more advanced ones will help, especially now that I have a bigger bike than in the past. In fact, there's a fellow nearby that teaches a program and apparently he might do some one on one stuff as well that I've reached out to.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 143
From: Palm Desert,CA
I got a little feel for what you're going through with wondering about shift points a couple weekends ago.
Been riding my first Harley (and first bike in 18 years), an '02 1200 C (so no tach), since last September. It's got open pipes on it from the previous owner. So when I first started riding it, I was shifting pretty early as I wasn't accustomed to how loud it would be. I was upshifting to 2nd around 15-20, 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 and 5th at 50. While it wasn't lugging enough to make the bike shudder, after reading some, it appears the general consensus is the Sporty's like higher RPMs, so I started shifting higher. Now for a casual acceleration I shift to 2nd at 25, 3rd at 40, 4th around 55, and 5th when I get to cruise speed. And I'm comfortable with the sounds at these speeds.
Fast forward to Dealer Demo Day a couple weeks ago. Took out a Dyna Low Rider and a CVO Roadking. Both of these bikes were so much quieter and smoother than my sporty, I had VERY poor feel for when I should be shifting. I was hunting around for the tach, and trying to figure out what to do. By the end of the second demo ride I was starting to get sort of comfortable with it - but for me, I think I would have to decide to shift based on the visual feeling of speed, more than anything else, until I spent some time getting used to the sounds. It was just night and day different from my loud sporty...
Been riding my first Harley (and first bike in 18 years), an '02 1200 C (so no tach), since last September. It's got open pipes on it from the previous owner. So when I first started riding it, I was shifting pretty early as I wasn't accustomed to how loud it would be. I was upshifting to 2nd around 15-20, 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 and 5th at 50. While it wasn't lugging enough to make the bike shudder, after reading some, it appears the general consensus is the Sporty's like higher RPMs, so I started shifting higher. Now for a casual acceleration I shift to 2nd at 25, 3rd at 40, 4th around 55, and 5th when I get to cruise speed. And I'm comfortable with the sounds at these speeds.
Fast forward to Dealer Demo Day a couple weeks ago. Took out a Dyna Low Rider and a CVO Roadking. Both of these bikes were so much quieter and smoother than my sporty, I had VERY poor feel for when I should be shifting. I was hunting around for the tach, and trying to figure out what to do. By the end of the second demo ride I was starting to get sort of comfortable with it - but for me, I think I would have to decide to shift based on the visual feeling of speed, more than anything else, until I spent some time getting used to the sounds. It was just night and day different from my loud sporty...
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 143
From: Palm Desert,CA
Ok, I will give you a serious answer, since you're going to be a smart ***. First, 2000 and below is lugging, avoid that area.
Don't approach red line. It's called that for a reason. Red means danger. You can ask any 5 year old and they'll tell you that.
As for everything in between, it depends on how fast your going, the load on the bike, if you are going up hill or down, with the wind or against, how fast you're accelerating or decelerating.
Beginners like you are well advised to take a beginner riders course. Followed by and intermediate course, then ride with an experienced rider for a few years closely to learn how to ride safely, then move onto an advanced course. At that time you might be able to do it on your own.
Anyone that comes to an internet forum to ask such a dumb *** question should not be on the road.
Don't approach red line. It's called that for a reason. Red means danger. You can ask any 5 year old and they'll tell you that.
As for everything in between, it depends on how fast your going, the load on the bike, if you are going up hill or down, with the wind or against, how fast you're accelerating or decelerating.
Beginners like you are well advised to take a beginner riders course. Followed by and intermediate course, then ride with an experienced rider for a few years closely to learn how to ride safely, then move onto an advanced course. At that time you might be able to do it on your own.
Anyone that comes to an internet forum to ask such a dumb *** question should not be on the road.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 143
From: Palm Desert,CA
OMG. Dr Zeus? Wow that's flattering.
Here's the thing.... You turn your throttle off the engine will slow your bike. Turn it on the engine will accelerate the bike. You don't need brakes. My mom taught me that when I was a little kid, I've always remembered that and it's so true.
The op asked about switching gears and rpm. I'll say again in different terms. The lower limit is 2000 the upper limit is less than red line. Let's say 4800. Every thing in between is fair game. Switch where you like there are no rules. If you want a bit more spirited ride keep your rpms a bit higher. If you want to conserve gas keep them lower. Switch where it makes you happy and feels good. Just keep the rpm between the limits I mentioned above.
Here's the thing.... You turn your throttle off the engine will slow your bike. Turn it on the engine will accelerate the bike. You don't need brakes. My mom taught me that when I was a little kid, I've always remembered that and it's so true.
The op asked about switching gears and rpm. I'll say again in different terms. The lower limit is 2000 the upper limit is less than red line. Let's say 4800. Every thing in between is fair game. Switch where you like there are no rules. If you want a bit more spirited ride keep your rpms a bit higher. If you want to conserve gas keep them lower. Switch where it makes you happy and feels good. Just keep the rpm between the limits I mentioned above.
My bad, work was hell yesterday and now I'm only reading parts of the thread backwards
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 586
Likes: 25
From: Ellan Vannin
With stage 1, my bike is happiest at 2,500 revs in just about any gear. At that level, engine braking is effective when rolling off, and plenty of guts when rolling on. 96ci twin cam in a Street Glide.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 107
Likes: 1
From: NC
Dusty_Bones:
I just want to say that I appreciate your effort to educate the uninformed masses. Steve Munden has some great, no-nonsense info on his website that is backed up by science, not just folklore. I would recommend that you don't tell anyone on this site that increasing their contact patch by going to a larger rear tire will not give them any additional traction! You may be banned for life!
I just want to say that I appreciate your effort to educate the uninformed masses. Steve Munden has some great, no-nonsense info on his website that is backed up by science, not just folklore. I would recommend that you don't tell anyone on this site that increasing their contact patch by going to a larger rear tire will not give them any additional traction! You may be banned for life!