Battery issue
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Intermediate
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Battery issue
In theory, I shouldn't have to replace a battery (interstate) that was stored in a warm building all winter with no tender. It just didn't have the juice to turn it over tonight when i put it in tonight. Will putting it on a tender get it right again?
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 410
From: Puyallup, WA
Maybe in theory, but in reality a battery will loose it's charge over time. No, a tender is not a charger; only maintains a charge. Charge the battery with a charger and proceed from there.
A tender can charge a battery - it just takes longer AND it's much safer for the battery because if you forget about it nothing bad happens.
http://www.batterytender.com/faq/products
http://www.batterytender.com/faq/products
Last edited by Ed Ramberger; May 28, 2018 at 06:55 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
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emf is a powerful force. in the battery there are positive and negative plates. the electrons want to flow to the positive plates to equalize the force. the electrolyte is the insulator between the two forces, that is why if you store with out a maintainer, they recommend fully charging the battery. as time passes, some electrons will move across the electrolyte and it becomes unbalanced and that snow ***** till the battery equalizes.
also, the battery needs cycling to prevent the plate material from sulfating which is an insulator, over time, the plates eventually degrade and when charged, it fluffs the sulfite off and it falls to a void under the plates. over time, the void becomes full and the plates will stop conducting. in times past, the old lead acid battery was dumped and washed out and refilled and you could get more usage at lower output, not so much for today's batteries.
also, the battery needs cycling to prevent the plate material from sulfating which is an insulator, over time, the plates eventually degrade and when charged, it fluffs the sulfite off and it falls to a void under the plates. over time, the void becomes full and the plates will stop conducting. in times past, the old lead acid battery was dumped and washed out and refilled and you could get more usage at lower output, not so much for today's batteries.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: poway
emf is a powerful force. in the battery there are positive and negative plates. the electrons want to flow to the positive plates to equalize the force. the electrolyte is the insulator between the two forces, that is why if you store with out a maintainer, they recommend fully charging the battery. as time passes, some electrons will move across the electrolyte and it becomes unbalanced and that snow ***** till the battery equalizes.
also, the battery needs cycling to prevent the plate material from sulfating which is an insulator, over time, the plates eventually degrade and when charged, it fluffs the sulfite off and it falls to a void under the plates. over time, the void becomes full and the plates will stop conducting. in times past, the old lead acid battery was dumped and washed out and refilled and you could get more usage at lower output, not so much for today's batteries.
also, the battery needs cycling to prevent the plate material from sulfating which is an insulator, over time, the plates eventually degrade and when charged, it fluffs the sulfite off and it falls to a void under the plates. over time, the void becomes full and the plates will stop conducting. in times past, the old lead acid battery was dumped and washed out and refilled and you could get more usage at lower output, not so much for today's batteries.
The electrolyte is not an insulator, It's highly conductive when the battery is charged. Electrolyte is mostly water when discharged You need to look at the reaction to see whats happening. All Lead Acid batteries actually sulphate with discharging, The problem is that if the sulfate process is allowed to continue, the sulfate becomes thick enough that it cannot be chemically reversed into H2S04, Pb and PB02. If you let the battery sit dead for any length of time the sulfate quickly becomes thick enough that the damage is done and the battery won't charge. In some cases charging and discharging at high currents can break down the heavy PbSO2 but in most cases the battery will be weaker.
Batteries have a self discharge rate and will go dead sitting. IIRC an AGM battery should be recharged every 3-6 months. Flooded batteries are less than that.
While a battery maintainer can bring a battery to full charge, it might not break down all the PBSO4. It's better to hit an AGM HD battery with 10 amps or more while make sure not to overheat the battery. I've managed to bring some back by alternating between a carbon pile tester at 100 amps for 15 seconds and a 10 amp charger. Sometimes you get lucky.
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well mr. max, the electrolyte is the insulator, you need to research it yourself. without the electrolyte, there can be no energy transfer! the electrolyte is what provides the ion change, NOT the plate material although it is necessary to the process. when the battery becomes fully charged, the electrolyte CAN NOT support any more exchange and it is called balanced! as long as the electrolyte is balanced, the battery is in limbo. when you place a load across the terminals, you provide a path for the electrons to pass from the negative to the positive plates since the load offers less resistance than the electrolyte. when this happens, the electrolyte becomes unbalanced and continues to provide ion exchange between plate material, without this, the battery goes useless. look at the electrolyte as a catalyst, or as salt in a water softener.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: poway
well mr. max, the electrolyte is the insulator, you need to research it yourself. without the electrolyte, there can be no energy transfer! the electrolyte is what provides the ion change, NOT the plate material although it is necessary to the process. when the battery becomes fully charged, the electrolyte CAN NOT support any more exchange and it is called balanced! as long as the electrolyte is balanced, the battery is in limbo. when you place a load across the terminals, you provide a path for the electrons to pass from the negative to the positive plates since the load offers less resistance than the electrolyte. when this happens, the electrolyte becomes unbalanced and continues to provide ion exchange between plate material, without this, the battery goes useless. look at the electrolyte as a catalyst, or as salt in a water softener.
Your use of catalyst is wrong.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/catalyst
1. Chemistry. a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected.
The electrolyte in a battery changes as current flows. It's not a catalyst.
If the electrolyte is an insulator, where is the current loop required to complete the circuit for current to flow? Current has to flow through the electrolyte to the plates for the circuit to complete. It occurs in the form of cations and anions movement during the chemical reaction.
Batteries do have a characteristic that the impedance goes up when there isn't any load but that does not make the electrolyte an insulator. Big difference between a capacitor and a battery. Capacitor simply stores charge, Battery uses a chemical reaction to store energy.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
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i only use the term in generality, catalyst can have many meanings.
i usually do not reply to moot things but i will make an exception. at present, taking care of more pressing issues. also, insulator is a generality also, but if you prefer a diff term, barrier is another one. i WILL not get into the many diff constructions because they ALL diff.
as soon as i can, will post my reply.
i usually do not reply to moot things but i will make an exception. at present, taking care of more pressing issues. also, insulator is a generality also, but if you prefer a diff term, barrier is another one. i WILL not get into the many diff constructions because they ALL diff.
as soon as i can, will post my reply.