Help please.
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RE: Help please.
ORIGINAL: daconiam
Tell them to take it on a 25 mile minimum ride and set your trip to zero when you get there.
You could bight the bullet and pay for them to replace the compensator, maybe make a deal "if it works then they pay if not you pay...?"
I read on another thread that someone proved the bike had a problem by having a portable vibration meter. It takes some sort of hard "proof" (besides the obvious) to get them to do anything
I dropped my bike off with an active engine trouble code (should have checked months ago). This is the 4th time I have asked them to look at the rough idle andhigh vibs. Hoping with the code in the bike I will not get a "it's normal" kick in the pants.....[:'(].
Tell them to take it on a 25 mile minimum ride and set your trip to zero when you get there.
You could bight the bullet and pay for them to replace the compensator, maybe make a deal "if it works then they pay if not you pay...?"
I read on another thread that someone proved the bike had a problem by having a portable vibration meter. It takes some sort of hard "proof" (besides the obvious) to get them to do anything
I dropped my bike off with an active engine trouble code (should have checked months ago). This is the 4th time I have asked them to look at the rough idle andhigh vibs. Hoping with the code in the bike I will not get a "it's normal" kick in the pants.....[:'(].
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 286
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From: Shit's Creek
RE: Help please.
I appreciate the responses, as I'm sure Easy Crossing does. Thanks for the diagram JLochart29, but they must have changed the design in 07'. Someone posted in my "compensator" thread that they use a non servicable spring pack, thats why I do not see a diagram in my 07' shop manual. As to getting them to hear it buy taking it on a 25 mile ride, I've offered to let the head mechanic ride it for a week. Put 200 miles on it for all I care. No takers. They have heard the knocking, they told me the first time they heard it, " don't ride that, we'll get it in tomorrow and tighten your loose compensator". Only problem, the compensator wasn't loose. Same guy now tells me it sounds normal! I'll get to the bottom of this, if I have to replace the compensator, chain, and adjuster at my own expence. As far as vibration analysis, I have access to both Entec/ Rockwell Automation and SKF vibration equipment. I've performed vibration analysis in the biotec industry for years, on electric motors andgear boxes. You really nead a normal base line, to show the differance in two units. Then try and get harley or anyone to agree what a normalvibration is in a motor like this. One thing I can tell you, I've diagnosed a lot of failing bearings with vibration equipment, and failing bearings don't knock. You usually see alot of high frequency vibration, and ball pass noise. Picture a train wheel on a track, every time the wheel rolls across a junction of two lengths of track it clacks. Same as the roller, or ball rolling in a defective bearing race. If this knock were caused by a bearing, that bearing would have grenaded by now.
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RE: Help please.
ORIGINAL: HOGBOB
I appreciate the responses, as I'm sure Easy Crossing does. Thanks for the diagram JLochart29, but they must have changed the design in 07'. Someone posted in my "compensator" thread that they use a non servicable spring pack, thats why I do not see a diagram in my 07' shop manual. As to getting them to hear it buy taking it on a 25 mile ride, I've offered to let the head mechanic ride it for a week. Put 200 miles on it for all I care. No takers. They have heard the knocking, they told me the first time they heard it, " don't ride that, we'll get it in tomorrow and tighten your loose compensator". Only problem, the compensator wasn't loose. Same guy now tells me it sounds normal! I'll get to the bottom of this, if I have to replace the compensator, chain, and adjuster at my own expence. As far as vibration analysis, I have access to both Entec/ Rockwell Automation and SKF vibration equipment. I've performed vibration analysis in the biotec industry for years, on electric motors andgear boxes. You really nead a normal base line, to show the differance in two units. Then try and get harley or anyone to agree what a normalvibration is in a motor like this. One thing I can tell you, I've diagnosed a lot of failing bearings with vibration equipment, and failing bearings don't knock. You usually see alot of high frequency vibration, and ball pass noise. Picture a train wheel on a track, every time the wheel rolls across a junction of two lengths of track it clacks. Same as the roller, or ball rolling in a defective bearing race. If this knock were caused by a bearing, that bearing would have grenaded by now.
I appreciate the responses, as I'm sure Easy Crossing does. Thanks for the diagram JLochart29, but they must have changed the design in 07'. Someone posted in my "compensator" thread that they use a non servicable spring pack, thats why I do not see a diagram in my 07' shop manual. As to getting them to hear it buy taking it on a 25 mile ride, I've offered to let the head mechanic ride it for a week. Put 200 miles on it for all I care. No takers. They have heard the knocking, they told me the first time they heard it, " don't ride that, we'll get it in tomorrow and tighten your loose compensator". Only problem, the compensator wasn't loose. Same guy now tells me it sounds normal! I'll get to the bottom of this, if I have to replace the compensator, chain, and adjuster at my own expence. As far as vibration analysis, I have access to both Entec/ Rockwell Automation and SKF vibration equipment. I've performed vibration analysis in the biotec industry for years, on electric motors andgear boxes. You really nead a normal base line, to show the differance in two units. Then try and get harley or anyone to agree what a normalvibration is in a motor like this. One thing I can tell you, I've diagnosed a lot of failing bearings with vibration equipment, and failing bearings don't knock. You usually see alot of high frequency vibration, and ball pass noise. Picture a train wheel on a track, every time the wheel rolls across a junction of two lengths of track it clacks. Same as the roller, or ball rolling in a defective bearing race. If this knock were caused by a bearing, that bearing would have grenaded by now.
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RE: Help please.
My guess is this is why the dealers won't do much troubleshooting with these new bikes.
Warranty Pre-Authorization from Technical Service (by
using the Initial Care Phone Line listed below) is
required for
all POWERTRAIN
repairs. Decisions concerning
repair versus replacement or requests for further
diagnostic labor time will be determined by Technical
Service Representatives at that time.
â
With the exception of the clutch access (derby) cover for
scheduled maintenance or P&A accessory cover installations;
none of the primary, transmission, or engine
compartments should be opened or covers removed
prior to contacting Technical Service's Initial Care Team
for diagnostic assistance and/or Warranty Pre-Authorization.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7
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RE: Help please.
The compensator, in my 2007 heritage, failed and trashed my engine. Details in the linked post: http://forums.delphiforums.com/about...ges?msg=2510.1
The dealer said they'd never seen a compensator fail like that before, but mine is the second so far. HD was hot to get the parts back so they could investigate.
HD redesigned the compensators for the 2007 models, and I'm betting the 2008 models have the same one. I don't mind it trashing the engine so much (covered under the warrantee), but it locks up the drive train when that happens, which can be very bad if you're going at any speed at all. Fortunately I was only going about 5 mph at the time. It may be that your compensator is fine, and just needs a shorter bolt to hold it in place, but I want you to know that mine experienced a "catastrophic failure" in the words of the mechanic, and bent my crankshaft. HD is replacing the engine and inner primary under the warrantee.
The dealer said they'd never seen a compensator fail like that before, but mine is the second so far. HD was hot to get the parts back so they could investigate.
HD redesigned the compensators for the 2007 models, and I'm betting the 2008 models have the same one. I don't mind it trashing the engine so much (covered under the warrantee), but it locks up the drive train when that happens, which can be very bad if you're going at any speed at all. Fortunately I was only going about 5 mph at the time. It may be that your compensator is fine, and just needs a shorter bolt to hold it in place, but I want you to know that mine experienced a "catastrophic failure" in the words of the mechanic, and bent my crankshaft. HD is replacing the engine and inner primary under the warrantee.
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RE: Help please.
Did your compensator make a rattle noise before failing? Remember the game Yahtzee where you put the dice in a little can and rolled the dice, that's what my compensator sounds like. Very annoying and I bet it ends up like yours!
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 38
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From: cleveland, ohio
RE: Help please.
PRETTY SAD WHEN YOU SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY AND CANT GET HARLEY TO BACK YOU UP, LIKE ONE PERSON SAID GET THE OWNER INVOLVED AND THE REP FOR THAT AREA, IT IS UNDER WARRANTY. i JUST BOUGHT A 2007 FLHX AND HOPE i DONT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS LIKE THAT.
Already have small issues with the bike starting on the first try, have fuel injection
Already have small issues with the bike starting on the first try, have fuel injection
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Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
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From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: Help please.
Too much misinformation here. First of all, it's a bolt not a nut on 07s-08s.It can't be bottomed out as it only uses about 9 threads andhasabout 1/2" or more of thread left in the crank before it bottoms out. To correctly tighten this thing the bolt needs to come out completely and all old loctite needs to be removed. It can now be retorqued to spec. This however may not fix the problem as the springpack that is in the altenator rotor may be weak causing the compensator cam to rattle even though the comp unit is tight. The whole rotor needs to be changed in order bring back the pressure. I shimmed mine with .032 washer to up the pressure, as I sure as hell was not going to spring for the whole rotor just for a mickey mouse spring problem. Do a search on compensators on this forum as there is lot's of good info on problems similar to yours. Springs cannot be purchased seperately from a dealer. Most techs don't even know how these things work, so you have to find one that does , and he will no doubt zero in on the disc washers as being weak.Some are good and some just plain suck for pressure. Just the luck of the draw.
Ron
Ron
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,675
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From: Billings,Mt.
RE: Help please.
I dont have any info on the cause of the noise but if it was mine I would not try to fix it myself in fear of any warranty issue.
What I would do is persue corrective action from a dealer or just ride it until it breaks.If it breaks then there will be none of this,"it sounds normal" crap.
What I would do is persue corrective action from a dealer or just ride it until it breaks.If it breaks then there will be none of this,"it sounds normal" crap.
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