Head Temp VS Engine Temp
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Road Master
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 858
Likes: 140
From: USA
Head Temp VS Engine Temp
I'm confused over the head temp (HT) versus the engine temp (ET) thing.
Attached tables show what my stock FLHX tune shows for both HT and ET tables (PV screen shots). This MAP is stock and unchanged from HD.
What I'm confused about is that my tables in WinPV show no timing adjustments for the ET table but do show timing adjustments for HT table. I thought maybe that it had to do with the way the tables were labeled by PV so I looked at a good friend of mines MAP in his SERT and saw the same thing. ET table was blank and the HT table was populated. I also looked at a fairly close to stock MAP in the TTS software (attached) and saw that these were exactly opposite of my PV tables and the SERT tables that I looked at.
What I want to know is - if I want to pull timing based on the ET field that is shown in my PV data logs should I do it on the ET table or should I do it on the HT table?
Thanks.
Attached tables show what my stock FLHX tune shows for both HT and ET tables (PV screen shots). This MAP is stock and unchanged from HD.
What I'm confused about is that my tables in WinPV show no timing adjustments for the ET table but do show timing adjustments for HT table. I thought maybe that it had to do with the way the tables were labeled by PV so I looked at a good friend of mines MAP in his SERT and saw the same thing. ET table was blank and the HT table was populated. I also looked at a fairly close to stock MAP in the TTS software (attached) and saw that these were exactly opposite of my PV tables and the SERT tables that I looked at.
What I want to know is - if I want to pull timing based on the ET field that is shown in my PV data logs should I do it on the ET table or should I do it on the HT table?
Thanks.
Try taking timing out of one of the tables on an area that you will easily hit while riding, data look and look to see if timing was removed. If not try the same thing with the other table and repeat the test. You'll find your answer.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
If you want to pull timing based on ET. Do it in the ET spark correction table. If you are basing it on HT. Do it in the HT spark correction table. Only way you know what cells to adjust.
Does vision give you a head temp fuel table? How about IAT spark correction? I would suggest reading through the vision manual and look at the different descriptions of each table, and what to do with it.
Does vision give you a head temp fuel table? How about IAT spark correction? I would suggest reading through the vision manual and look at the different descriptions of each table, and what to do with it.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
All this talk about Engine vs Head temp ...my brand spanking new Power Vision does not show or record HeadT
Not sure why that would be but rather strangely my software says my PV is Firmware version 2.0.20-1508 ...and that the latest available is 2.0.19-1506 !!?
Have they taken it away to stop us worrying about something we shouldn't be tinkering with?
Not sure why that would be but rather strangely my software says my PV is Firmware version 2.0.20-1508 ...and that the latest available is 2.0.19-1506 !!?
Have they taken it away to stop us worrying about something we shouldn't be tinkering with?
Most PV calibrations have spark/temp correction tables exposed based on both engine temp (ET) and head temp, you will use one or the other. Most oem as well as PV cals are developed using head temp for temperature based correction, however if you want to make your corrections based of ET you will clear the spark correction by heat temp table and refer to the engine temp table for your corrections.
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
All this talk about Engine vs Head temp ...my brand spanking new Power Vision does not show or record HeadT
Not sure why that would be but rather strangely my software says my PV is Firmware version 2.0.20-1508 ...and that the latest available is 2.0.19-1506 !!?
Have they taken it away to stop us worrying about something we shouldn't be tinkering with?
Not sure why that would be but rather strangely my software says my PV is Firmware version 2.0.20-1508 ...and that the latest available is 2.0.19-1506 !!?
Have they taken it away to stop us worrying about something we shouldn't be tinkering with?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
The tables are in there however your calibration may need to be updated to expose them, open the calibration in WinPv>plug in your PV>go to Power vision>update tune using PV and it will bring all of the latast tables forward. To monitor/log head temp in your logs this channel is a PID under advanced signals.
thanks
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Road Master
Joined: Feb 2016
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From: USA
Most PV calibrations have spark/temp correction tables exposed based on both engine temp (ET) and head temp, you will use one or the other. Most oem as well as PV cals are developed using head temp for temperature based correction, however if you want to make your corrections based of ET you will clear the spark correction by heat temp table and refer to the engine temp table for your corrections.
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 858
Likes: 140
From: USA
If you want to pull timing based on ET. Do it in the ET spark correction table. If you are basing it on HT. Do it in the HT spark correction table. Only way you know what cells to adjust.
Does vision give you a head temp fuel table? How about IAT spark correction? I would suggest reading through the vision manual and look at the different descriptions of each table, and what to do with it.
Does vision give you a head temp fuel table? How about IAT spark correction? I would suggest reading through the vision manual and look at the different descriptions of each table, and what to do with it.
I don't see a head temp fuel table in my PV MAP.
I don't have a IAT spark correction table, but I do have a spark adjustment for intake air temp. Is this the same? If so, what would I use the table for? The lowest setting on the temp side of that table is 90 degrees and then it moves to 118 degrees and then to 147 degrees. What if the air temp is 70 degrees but I am in heavy traffic and the engine temp shoots up to say 300 degrees, that table would not retard the timing would it? Wouldn't I be better to use the spark retard by ET or HT table?
One other question - since I don't have the head temp fuel table in my MAP. I'm guessing that (that) table richens up the AFR based on HT/ET to help with pinging. Won't retarding the timing based on HT/ET also richen up the AFR? Just curious if the same thing can be done without the head temp fuel table.
Thanks.
Last edited by oleboy; Apr 8, 2016 at 10:14 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Thanks.
I don't see a head temp fuel table in my PV MAP.
I don't have a IAT spark correction table, but I do have a spark adjustment for intake air temp. Is this the same? If so, what would I use the table for? The lowest setting on the temp side of that table is 90 degrees and then it moves to 118 degrees and then to 147 degrees. What if the air temp is 70 degrees but I am in heavy traffic and the engine temp shoots up to say 300 degrees, that table would not retard the timing would it? Wouldn't I be better to use the spark retard by ET or HT table?
One other question - since I don't have the head temp fuel table in my MAP. I'm guessing that (that) table richens up the AFR based on HT/ET to help with pinging. Won't retarding the timing based on HT/ET also richen up the AFR? Just curious if the same thing can be done without the head temp fuel table.
Thanks.
I don't see a head temp fuel table in my PV MAP.
I don't have a IAT spark correction table, but I do have a spark adjustment for intake air temp. Is this the same? If so, what would I use the table for? The lowest setting on the temp side of that table is 90 degrees and then it moves to 118 degrees and then to 147 degrees. What if the air temp is 70 degrees but I am in heavy traffic and the engine temp shoots up to say 300 degrees, that table would not retard the timing would it? Wouldn't I be better to use the spark retard by ET or HT table?
One other question - since I don't have the head temp fuel table in my MAP. I'm guessing that (that) table richens up the AFR based on HT/ET to help with pinging. Won't retarding the timing based on HT/ET also richen up the AFR? Just curious if the same thing can be done without the head temp fuel table.
Thanks.
That is the same table. I bring them up because they all work together. I am use to dealing with ET's and IAT spark correction tables. TTS tuning guide has a good description of each of these tables. Not having a head temp fuel table is no big deal. There are other ways of dealing with it. These tables are somewhat redundant.