M8 timing - advice?
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 740
Likes: 228
From: Lagoa - VNF
logs keep showing those 'retarded' events... documentation says it should reduce itself at every key-on but I don't think that is happening.
is there a way to force a 'reset' of this thing?
is there a way to force a 'reset' of this thing?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
Curious...
you say that the crank tooth setting doesn't work, and was why it was available only to Shops with a license to use the advanced config.
Are you saying the crank tooth didn't work? or did you mean that Joe Public just couldn't change it?
The latest release of WinPV now reveals the IVO/IVC by default.
you say that the crank tooth setting doesn't work, and was why it was available only to Shops with a license to use the advanced config.
Are you saying the crank tooth didn't work? or did you mean that Joe Public just couldn't change it?
The latest release of WinPV now reveals the IVO/IVC by default.
So see, FMs great tech support and base maps for PV is out of necessity.
With TTS Mastertune this is part of the Cam Tune process.
Only stands to reason someone who was key in developing something would know best how it works and how best to tune it. Unless you're dyno tuning, TTS Mastertune will get you the next best tune doing it yourself using smart tune, v tune, whatever the case may be. Nothing is Auto Tuned and that term itself is deceiving if you ask me.
Now with the new M8s with the new ECM well...just one more reason I'd never own one. The who!e point is to make it hard to tune in the first place or change how the EPA wants it to run. No thanks. And yep, it's only going to get worse thanks to he EPA and treehuggers inc. Remember that next time y'all vote for someone like Biden.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Originally Posted by b0fh
logs keep showing those 'retarded' events... documentation says it should reduce itself at every key-on but I don't think that is happening.
is there a way to force a 'reset' of this thing?
is there a way to force a 'reset' of this thing?
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Originally Posted by 60Gunner
It means it's hit and miss because it's never worked right so it's only available to a select few to "hit and miss" with. That's why y'all need to get base maps from FM and send them back to get corrected if this setting is wrong. A dead give away it's wrong is if your MAP is 40+ kPa or higher at idle. You'll never get a good tune if this is the case and FM has to fix it. You can't.
So see, FMs great tech support and base maps for PV is out of necessity.
With TTS Mastertune this is part of the Cam Tune process.
Only stands to reason someone who was key in developing something would know best how it works and how best to tune it. Unless you're dyno tuning, TTS Mastertune will get you the next best tune doing it yourself using smart tune, v tune, whatever the case may be. Nothing is Auto Tuned and that term itself is deceiving if you ask me.
Now with the new M8s with the new ECM well...just one more reason I'd never own one. The who!e point is to make it hard to tune in the first place or change how the EPA wants it to run. No thanks. And yep, it's only going to get worse thanks to he EPA and treehuggers inc. Remember that next time y'all vote for someone like Biden.
So see, FMs great tech support and base maps for PV is out of necessity.
With TTS Mastertune this is part of the Cam Tune process.
Only stands to reason someone who was key in developing something would know best how it works and how best to tune it. Unless you're dyno tuning, TTS Mastertune will get you the next best tune doing it yourself using smart tune, v tune, whatever the case may be. Nothing is Auto Tuned and that term itself is deceiving if you ask me.
Now with the new M8s with the new ECM well...just one more reason I'd never own one. The who!e point is to make it hard to tune in the first place or change how the EPA wants it to run. No thanks. And yep, it's only going to get worse thanks to he EPA and treehuggers inc. Remember that next time y'all vote for someone like Biden.
This can also be seen by using TTS's cam estimator and getting one setting for IVO and then using his tools in Data Master and getting another IVO setting.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
It means it's hit and miss because it's never worked right so it's only available to a select few to "hit and miss" with. That's why y'all need to get base maps from FM and send them back to get corrected if this setting is wrong. A dead give away it's wrong is if your MAP is 40+ kPa or higher at idle. You'll never get a good tune if this is the case and FM has to fix it. You can't.
So see, FMs great tech support and base maps for PV is out of necessity.
With TTS Mastertune this is part of the Cam Tune process.
Only stands to reason someone who was key in developing something would know best how it works and how best to tune it. Unless you're dyno tuning, TTS Mastertune will get you the next best tune doing it yourself using smart tune, v tune, whatever the case may be. Nothing is Auto Tuned and that term itself is deceiving if you ask me.
Now with the new M8s with the new ECM well...just one more reason I'd never own one. The who!e point is to make it hard to tune in the first place or change how the EPA wants it to run. No thanks. And yep, it's only going to get worse thanks to he EPA and treehuggers inc. Remember that next time y'all vote for someone like Biden.
So see, FMs great tech support and base maps for PV is out of necessity.
With TTS Mastertune this is part of the Cam Tune process.
Only stands to reason someone who was key in developing something would know best how it works and how best to tune it. Unless you're dyno tuning, TTS Mastertune will get you the next best tune doing it yourself using smart tune, v tune, whatever the case may be. Nothing is Auto Tuned and that term itself is deceiving if you ask me.
Now with the new M8s with the new ECM well...just one more reason I'd never own one. The who!e point is to make it hard to tune in the first place or change how the EPA wants it to run. No thanks. And yep, it's only going to get worse thanks to he EPA and treehuggers inc. Remember that next time y'all vote for someone like Biden.
...and there is sort of a way to sort of adapt the master tune method to sort of get to the right IVO. Me n Frederic came up with something back in 2017 for the TC ...it worked just as well when I did my M8...and Mr Wizards blip test also works
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 740
Likes: 228
From: Lagoa - VNF
I'm using the IVO/IVC from my original map (20/38 which HAS to be right as the engine is stock) and my idle KPa reading is 25-ish so I guess its all good.
the map FM sent me is software level 823 (and my stock map was/is 824, so instead of flashing it I copied/adapted tables from 823 to 824).
823 map does not show IVO/IVC
the map FM sent me is software level 823 (and my stock map was/is 824, so instead of flashing it I copied/adapted tables from 823 to 824).
823 map does not show IVO/IVC
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,494
Likes: 4,780
The adaptive spark system is NOT corrected each time the key is turned off. It also has no reset function built into it, so you have to wait it out, as it learns. If you have excessive Knock events happening it going to be a long wait, so getting the timing so there are none, is the best thing to speed it up.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 740
Likes: 228
From: Lagoa - VNF
ok might have learned something new today.
if you activate 'advanced signals' on the PV, it will reveal 2 interesting ones : KnockCountF and KnockCountR
went for a ride today datalogging those, they never registered anything (which kinda matches the 'seat of pants' - never felt any pinging, in fact the map was too retarded and felt 'lazy' at WOT).
put it back to stock-ish advance maps and will try again soon if I can catch a break from this darn rain.
cheers.
if you activate 'advanced signals' on the PV, it will reveal 2 interesting ones : KnockCountF and KnockCountR
went for a ride today datalogging those, they never registered anything (which kinda matches the 'seat of pants' - never felt any pinging, in fact the map was too retarded and felt 'lazy' at WOT).
put it back to stock-ish advance maps and will try again soon if I can catch a break from this darn rain.
cheers.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
I'm using the IVO/IVC from my original map (20/38 which HAS to be right as the engine is stock) and my idle KPa reading is 25-ish so I guess its all good.
the map FM sent me is software level 823 (and my stock map was/is 824, so instead of flashing it I copied/adapted tables from 823 to 824).
823 map does not show IVO/IVC
the map FM sent me is software level 823 (and my stock map was/is 824, so instead of flashing it I copied/adapted tables from 823 to 824).
823 map does not show IVO/IVC
Have a look at this thread
I've watched on the dyno and those 824's are horrible for spark knock. Just to see I kept pulling timing where it told me to and just kept losing power. You can copy and paste most of your tables into a 921 cal and work from there. I switch from 824 to 921 on the touring bikes but haven't tried on a softail, though I can't see why it wouldn't work. With the 921 cal it'll still pull timing in the beginning but will learn as you go. Once you have it flashed, it'll pull a little timing here and there as it learns. For a test I put one on the road and kept hitting the areas over 50 kpa and it took about 5-6 miles to get it where it wasn't pulling any timing at all. I would look for a 921 map for a softail and use that as a starting point. Honestly I'd go to any software level but the 824.
I would love to know if 2deuceguy is onto something here, and if you can put the 921 software from a touring into a softail.