I have been reading a lot of the threads, both problems, complaints, and pros of both the ThunderMax and Power Commander, but I just am not satisfied with all that I have read or received from talking to shops to lay the money down for either one.

My local Dyno shop (small ma & pa place), strongly recommends that I purchase a ThunderMax w/AutoTune for my bike. The thing is I am having a really hard time dropping the $800 + $200 Dyno fee just for this system. I spent a few minutes with Jason from Speed's Performance at the last big rally out here talking to him about the ThunderMax and Power Commander systems and I am puzzled between the two.

Speed's Performance will sell me the Power Commander, install, and fully tune the bike for $599, not a bad deal. Now when I talked to Jason about the Thunder Max system he was saying a lot of places will stick with the Power Commander because so many more shops know the system and can easily tune the bike with it then a ThunderMax. I want to be able to tune the bike myself once I start to get a good feel for this stuff and Jason said the ThunderMax is not a very user friendly device like the Power Commander.

My local Dyno shop is really pushing the ThunderMax for one reason over the Power Commander and that is because it will not eliminate the O2 sensors on the bike. The tech guy there says "Harley put them there for a reason, why would you eliminate them?" The biggest selling point the Thundermax really has is just the AutoTune capability. With these guys being a small shop, they seem to have a pretty good knowledge of things, but how will I know what they are tuning on my bike is suffcient when a place like Speed's Performance doesn't even mess with the system?

I just feel like I am being "sold" a product like the ThunderMax at my local place, but I needed some guideance from others whether I am being sold or not. What are the drawbacks of the Power Commander eliminating my O2 sensors? If the bike is tuned with either system what is the advantage of an AutoTune option then?

Right now I just have Screamin Eagle Slip-Ons installed, but I plan to add a cam and intake over the winter...eventualy I would like to think about a big bore upgrade too, but would the Power Commander still give me the flexibility in tuning my engine or not?

I apologize that this is such a well covered and discussed topic, I just always seems to find, what I feel, biased information on one or the other....especially when I talk to local shops.

 

Power commander is not really ideal in any situation from what i have seen. Its more of a bandaid fix to add some fuel to make up for the extra air the engine is using.

Where as the Thundermax actually "tunes" to the air and how your bike runs. You dont NEED to dyno it but if you want every last HP out of it then by all means go hard.

Also I believe the Powercommander does nothing more than modify injector pulse times.... Pretty archaic.... where the Thundermax adjust based off of AF ratio AND THE IGNITION TIMING CAN BE ADJUSTED. Which is worth the price by itself.

600 bucks for a fuel dump computer...
\or 800 for a fuel / air real time adjustment AND ignition timing? Totally worth it...

 

Purchase, installation, & tune of Power Commander @ $599. Then add cams & intake, another $2-$300 for a new dyno-tune...then add big bore kit, another $2-$300 for new tune. Are you done? What if you decide to swap cams...guess what? ...Yepper, yet another dyno-tune. All this & you have to be sure you have a good tuner (scarce commodity) to start with. On the other hand you can get a TMAT for under $700 (from Shooter64 here on the forum to name one source), install it your self in a couple hours, & go riding. After that it'll take care of your upgrades w/out the need for any dyno-tuning whatsoever. Do the math....then do a search here for 'TMAT' or 'Thundermax', etc. Your money/your choice.

VicW.

 

donk,ignition timing can be adjusted w/the PC too...

VicW.

 

OK so really, the AutoTune would mean I can theoretically just buy the unit, put it on the bike and not need to have it Remapped or Dyno'd? I just want to be clear on things before I hand over the money for something I may not be satisified with.

I appreciate the help also fellas!

 

HG,
At this time there are the PC, Tmax and DTT. I have the DTT mostly for the larger range of adjustability. I know a few to have the Tmax and are very happy. Dont waste your money with the dyno tune. Put the Tmax or DTT in and ride it.... You will tell the difference and be happy. Ride for a bit and self tune (play) to get any pinging if any out then ride some more. THEN when you are happy with it do get a dyno run and see what the baby is doing then tweek it from there. Putting it in and then dyno running is a waste of money. These systems need TIME period to adjust. The Tmax needs to be run and turned on and off to set the adjustments it is recommending so dyno runs are a waiste upon initial install.....

I hope I confused you more but it is some solid advise....

 

1) Read through the forums- no system is free of problems regardless of cost. From all I've read on this and other websites, as well as the experiences of those I ride with and their various systems, none of the available products ranks real high on my impress-o-meter when it comes to simply putting it on and having it run like it should. All the companies want you to think they're "fire & forget," and for some folks this is the case. But quite frequently I've seen people on the phone with tech support trying to tune out (with varying degrees of success) popping, stumbling, pinging, surging, backfiring, etc. I've also seen and read about more than one occasion where folks just give up trying to tune out a certain problem and decide to live with it.
IMO with what some of these systems cost that's not much of a solution... [sm=ummmmokay.gif]

2) Just for the $hits & grins, look at V&H's website here: http://www.fuelpakfi.com/harley1.html
and see if they have a Fuel Pak map for the configuration you want to run. It's an easy lookup, and if they do it's a lot cheaper (<$200 new and no dyno time) to get your air-fuel ratio right. It lacks the sophisticated tuneability of some of the more elaborate systems, but it is changeable as your pipe/ECM/filter/cam configurations change and it also lacks the premium price tag.
Ain't sayin' it's better or worse than any of the other systems- it's just another option...

 

I have try all of them even a sert with my 07 I had problems with pc111 and the sert but the tmax I was impress no pigging and with the new firmware the popping went away I have about 200 miles and my bike runs great.

 

Spike CT is correct. If you are going to do future modifications, you will need to again and again put the bike on a dyno for each mod if you dont go with the T-Max or DTT. No system is a set it and forget it from the beginning. The T-Max and DTT will self tune but there are steps necesary to get them both to the point that they are darn near spot on. I ran a PCIII on my previous bike, and it was ok, but never really got it to where it should have been. With the DTT I am sure I am in the 90th percentile of performance and fuel economy that is available with my build. Do a search of this forum for both the DTT and the T-Max, you will learn a lot. Lots of knowleagable people here on both systems, but more of the "techno-heads" are running the DTT it seems.

If someone is trying to sell you a T-Max and a dyno tune, they dont know the system very well, no need to dyno unless you really want to know final numbers after the system has been on the bike for a while.

And do check with Shooter64 for the best prices on either unit. Self install is not difficult, just takes a bit of time.

 

Just got back from my dealer.... Tmax totally voids all ecm related warranty issues... Unless you swap it back to stock before it goes in for work