For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
Road Captain
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 692
Likes: 1
From:
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
Ok Steve.... Your going to be my new best friend..... I'm watching closely and am very interested. I currently have the DTT nad its fine for what it is BUT there is always better and being an engineer I can't leave well enough alone........
Please keep us posted on your progress.....
thanks
John
Please keep us posted on your progress.....
thanks
John
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,961
Likes: 263
From: Conroe Texas
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
Just in time, sat down to order the new SERT today (Chicago HD)to replace the TMAT that I am not happy with.Decided to check the forum beforeI pulled the trigger, got a PM from another premier member here alerting me to this thread. Steve hope you can pull this off, I might be one of your guinee pigs.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 3
From: TX
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
Glad to see ya found the thread MasterB!
I'm with Spike on this..... Waiting most (im)patiently for further info and the eminate release. Thanks for the info & updates Steve.... Keep'm coming!
I'm with Spike on this..... Waiting most (im)patiently for further info and the eminate release. Thanks for the info & updates Steve.... Keep'm coming!
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: Council Bluffs, Iowa
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,462
Likes: 4,718
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
All the information on the new product for HD bikes will be posted on www.mastertune.net once its ready to be released. The TTS site only has our automotive line of parts shown. As of right now were are looking at a release for the end of the month. We are waiting for cables and packaging to arrive. We've got 15,000 units being assembled right now so stock should be fine. There will be kits sold separately so no one is required to buy what they do not need. The base kit will be the Tuning package software and interface. The second and third kits will be the cables, one kit for USB application and one for serial port application. There will be an upgrade path for current SERT users but I do not have that information just yet.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 0
From: Olympia Wa.
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
Thats a good question Whit.
I can tell by the way my bike runs now compared to how it ran before. I can tell by all the people I have talked to from the other 12 or so Harley shops in this area. I can tell by that big assed grin on my face from getting what I believe is the best I can get for the money spent.
Although all them pretty graphs and pictures you replied with may be impressive to people who understand all that mumbo jumbo, keep in mind that I do not intend to doany speed competition, racing, or my bike is better than your bike crap. I just ride, and want a bike that will go when I want it to, not stumble or sputter when I ease off the clutch, still get over 40 mpg,and not sound like a 4th of July fireworks display when I release the throttle.
But I do thank you for your responce.
I can tell by the way my bike runs now compared to how it ran before. I can tell by all the people I have talked to from the other 12 or so Harley shops in this area. I can tell by that big assed grin on my face from getting what I believe is the best I can get for the money spent.
Although all them pretty graphs and pictures you replied with may be impressive to people who understand all that mumbo jumbo, keep in mind that I do not intend to doany speed competition, racing, or my bike is better than your bike crap. I just ride, and want a bike that will go when I want it to, not stumble or sputter when I ease off the clutch, still get over 40 mpg,and not sound like a 4th of July fireworks display when I release the throttle.
But I do thank you for your responce.
ORIGINAL: whittlebeast
The funny thing is how do you judge how good the tuner is. Max HP only? Good gas mileage only? Lack of detonation even on cheep gas? Dead stedy AFRs at every RPM and throttle position? How much he charged? How long it took?
My point is how did you verify any of this without data logging you bike300 miles later after the 02s did their majic, for the better or worse. Did the tuner turn the o2soff? How do you even know if he did not give you the tuning file?
When I ask loaded questions to the few tuners that I have met, somehave no clue what is really going on under the the covers. Ask them how they determineif the AE is good to go? Ask them to explain what is a carb fart, and why the new bikes don't do it? Have them explain how the motor knows when the creank is on the compression stroke and the ECU knows when to spray the injection. How he knows if he is running out of injector size? How do you know if the air cleaner is still too small or is plenty big and not the problem with the motor not making HP?
Without understanding the answers to these sorts of questions, they are just guessing what is really guessing on with your bike.
My guess is lots of "tuners" blow in a canned map, play around on the dyno for a bit, hoping not to find any huge holes. Make a quick full power run to get a curve and leave off the AFR hoping the customer insists on verifying 13.0 and making his life misserable. TheSERT software is just to difficult anyalize what the tuner is looking at, to do this fast. The tools that can interpret the data need to be included with the SERT software but Harley elected to not develope the product.
My software takes the SERT data log from
to
in a few keystrokes
Note that the graph below is the first gear acceleration graph.
.50 geez = 11.0 MPH/sec
.65 geez = 14.3 MPH/sec
Second gear starts pulling at about .5 Geez after the 1-2 shift
The bike brakes at about little over .8 geez or 17.5 MPH/sec
Just asking questions
AW
ORIGINAL: DZLDR
~~~~ Has the BEST Dyno Tuner in the region PERIOD!
His name is Steve and although I do not personaly know him, but he did the SERT and DYNO Tune on my bike and I could not be more Satisfied at the performance.
~~~~ Has the BEST Dyno Tuner in the region PERIOD!
His name is Steve and although I do not personaly know him, but he did the SERT and DYNO Tune on my bike and I could not be more Satisfied at the performance.
My point is how did you verify any of this without data logging you bike300 miles later after the 02s did their majic, for the better or worse. Did the tuner turn the o2soff? How do you even know if he did not give you the tuning file?
When I ask loaded questions to the few tuners that I have met, somehave no clue what is really going on under the the covers. Ask them how they determineif the AE is good to go? Ask them to explain what is a carb fart, and why the new bikes don't do it? Have them explain how the motor knows when the creank is on the compression stroke and the ECU knows when to spray the injection. How he knows if he is running out of injector size? How do you know if the air cleaner is still too small or is plenty big and not the problem with the motor not making HP?
Without understanding the answers to these sorts of questions, they are just guessing what is really guessing on with your bike.
My guess is lots of "tuners" blow in a canned map, play around on the dyno for a bit, hoping not to find any huge holes. Make a quick full power run to get a curve and leave off the AFR hoping the customer insists on verifying 13.0 and making his life misserable. TheSERT software is just to difficult anyalize what the tuner is looking at, to do this fast. The tools that can interpret the data need to be included with the SERT software but Harley elected to not develope the product.
My software takes the SERT data log from
to
in a few keystrokes
Note that the graph below is the first gear acceleration graph.
.50 geez = 11.0 MPH/sec
.65 geez = 14.3 MPH/sec
Second gear starts pulling at about .5 Geez after the 1-2 shift
The bike brakes at about little over .8 geez or 17.5 MPH/sec
Just asking questions
AW
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
ORIGINAL: hoosierhog88
I chose the SERT for a variety of reasons, mostly because I didn't like the idea of a 3rd party box hanging somewhere to "fool" the ECM. I like the idea of programming the ECM specifically to my machine.
I chose the SERT for a variety of reasons, mostly because I didn't like the idea of a 3rd party box hanging somewhere to "fool" the ECM. I like the idea of programming the ECM specifically to my machine.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
ORIGINAL: hoosierhog88
You need a SERT. The PCIII and other 3rd party devices, while good choices, are a possible single point of failure. And fail they do. The SERT reprograms the ECM and there is no "box" attached on the bike to "fool" the ECM.
You need a SERT. The PCIII and other 3rd party devices, while good choices, are a possible single point of failure. And fail they do. The SERT reprograms the ECM and there is no "box" attached on the bike to "fool" the ECM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
RE: For you guys debating SERT vs PCIII
With 15000 units in the pipe, all it would take is just 1% of them to be sold to people with intrest in the details and that would be 150 people. To date the vast majority of them will be sold tothe monopoly known as the Harley Dealer Network and the $125/hour shop rate.
With good software and attention to detail, you would be amazed at what you can learn from those charts and graphs. I personally am fed up with the Harley moto of "They all do that. What did you expect? It's a Harley" I have it handling and stoping like my ST1300 and now I am out to make the EFI feel that good too. Shure it's a wobble fire motor but so is a Ducati or a VStrom.
All this would be almost impossible to even considder at home with a PC3... You flat would have to have a dyno with a PC3
AW
With good software and attention to detail, you would be amazed at what you can learn from those charts and graphs. I personally am fed up with the Harley moto of "They all do that. What did you expect? It's a Harley" I have it handling and stoping like my ST1300 and now I am out to make the EFI feel that good too. Shure it's a wobble fire motor but so is a Ducati or a VStrom.
All this would be almost impossible to even considder at home with a PC3... You flat would have to have a dyno with a PC3
AW