SERT cable connection
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 983
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From: Wisconsin
SERT cable connection
When I bought my SERT, they threw in a couple of cables. The black one connects the SERT to the bike, and a gray one that supposedly connects the SERT to the computer. My problem is twofold. First, they gray cable is a nine pin serial cable, but my computer takes a 15 pin. Second, the open end of the gray cable would be female, while the computer is also female. Best Buy says I could use a serial to USB converter, which I may try after seeing what you all use. Any suggestions?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
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From: Florida
RE: SERT cable connection
Here is a good explaination of why the SERT uses the old serial port by one of my customers that does extensive computer programing. You probably have a moniter 9 pin serial port on the back of your computer which is the same connection as the cable....a searial port card would need to be installed in your computer, if this is imposible then the Biliken usb adapter will work. Forgive the text and spacing...I don't have a clue why it came out like this.(it was a copy/paste)
Interesting trip through serial port communications.I had some fun communication adventures loading the map into the ECM and found out some things about the SERT software. As I worked to get the map loaded it became obvious that the software was designed specifically for a good old fashioned serial port, as I had issues when trying to use a USB-to-serial adapter. I believe this is due to the adapter using software rather than hardware for some functions.The RS232 serial port found on older laptops and desktops primarily uses IC's and hardware to operate. This minimizes the load on the PC processor and assures very close timing for the data signals. The USB-to-serial adapter uses only one IC to translate data from the computer into RS232 signals. The function of several hardware IC's are "emulated"(simulated) by software that requires the PC processor to handle. These functions are in the drivers that must be loaded for the adapter to be recognized by the PC. The big problem with using software to replace the serial port hardware is that the timing of the data signals is not as precise.RS232 serial ports have some signals to act as "traffic control" to keep the computer from (1) sending data when the receiver is not ready and(2) make the computer send data immediately upon demand by the receiver.When the old hardware is used this happens very quickly and smoothly, but a lot of USB-to-serial adapters show delayed reactions to this "handshaking". I tested three different types of USB-to-serial adapters and found significant delays in the handshaking. Referring back to some old texts, the delays were exceeding the specification for RS232 communications. I expect that for most equipment these delays are no problem, but when programming the ECM it becomes very important.I expect that the guys who wrote the upload program for the SERT are using the serial port handshaking to ensure that the data reaches the ECM in a precisely timed order. When a USB-to-serial adapter is used that exhibits poor handshaking timing the program kicks out the bootloader error. This prevents the SERT from trying to load a map when it knows something is wrong with the interface. Incorrectly loading a map to the ECM could be disastrous, so I'm happy that the programmers went the extra mile to besure the upload doesn't occur unless everything is working right.For myself, I had to use a desktop computer with a hardware serial port to load the map successfully.
(quote by J.Pope)
Interesting trip through serial port communications.I had some fun communication adventures loading the map into the ECM and found out some things about the SERT software. As I worked to get the map loaded it became obvious that the software was designed specifically for a good old fashioned serial port, as I had issues when trying to use a USB-to-serial adapter. I believe this is due to the adapter using software rather than hardware for some functions.The RS232 serial port found on older laptops and desktops primarily uses IC's and hardware to operate. This minimizes the load on the PC processor and assures very close timing for the data signals. The USB-to-serial adapter uses only one IC to translate data from the computer into RS232 signals. The function of several hardware IC's are "emulated"(simulated) by software that requires the PC processor to handle. These functions are in the drivers that must be loaded for the adapter to be recognized by the PC. The big problem with using software to replace the serial port hardware is that the timing of the data signals is not as precise.RS232 serial ports have some signals to act as "traffic control" to keep the computer from (1) sending data when the receiver is not ready and(2) make the computer send data immediately upon demand by the receiver.When the old hardware is used this happens very quickly and smoothly, but a lot of USB-to-serial adapters show delayed reactions to this "handshaking". I tested three different types of USB-to-serial adapters and found significant delays in the handshaking. Referring back to some old texts, the delays were exceeding the specification for RS232 communications. I expect that for most equipment these delays are no problem, but when programming the ECM it becomes very important.I expect that the guys who wrote the upload program for the SERT are using the serial port handshaking to ensure that the data reaches the ECM in a precisely timed order. When a USB-to-serial adapter is used that exhibits poor handshaking timing the program kicks out the bootloader error. This prevents the SERT from trying to load a map when it knows something is wrong with the interface. Incorrectly loading a map to the ECM could be disastrous, so I'm happy that the programmers went the extra mile to besure the upload doesn't occur unless everything is working right.For myself, I had to use a desktop computer with a hardware serial port to load the map successfully.
(quote by J.Pope)
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
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RE: SERT cable connection
A 15 pin female connector would be a VGA monitor output connector. If there is no nine pin male connector then you don't have a com port. A common situation on most laptops sold in the past few years.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
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From: Florida
RE: SERT cable connection
Frisco42... I agree.
Mad City, becareful what you use...the best is the Biliken usb adapter, there are some cheap adapters that have been known to lock the ECM beyond recovery and that means it will have to be recovered by the Dealer with a Digital Tech....this will cost you more than the Biliken adapter would have.
Mad City, becareful what you use...the best is the Biliken usb adapter, there are some cheap adapters that have been known to lock the ECM beyond recovery and that means it will have to be recovered by the Dealer with a Digital Tech....this will cost you more than the Biliken adapter would have.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
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RE: SERT cable connection
Doc, I've got one of those noname USB to serial adapters and it seems to work fine for data logging from the SERT. Should I be wary of using it to program.
I've got 2 laptops. One is an older 400Mhz with a com port, the other is a 1.2GHz Dell with no com port. The USB adapter works with either one for data logging. The com port on the old laptop also works for logging. When I decide to load a map I will probably go with the real com port machine. Any thoughts?
I've got 2 laptops. One is an older 400Mhz with a com port, the other is a 1.2GHz Dell with no com port. The USB adapter works with either one for data logging. The com port on the old laptop also works for logging. When I decide to load a map I will probably go with the real com port machine. Any thoughts?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 31
From: Florida
RE: SERT cable connection
I would use the one with the serial port my self just to be safe. I know a lot of people tell me they have no problem with the cheap usb adapter....BUT..... let your ECM lock up just once will make your butt pucker...(sorry)..., I have seen ECM's lock up before and it is a MAJOR pain and it will ruin your day. It just isn't worth it to me. When I go to dealers to train the first thing I do is max out their memory in their computer and install a second Serial port....(one for the dyno and the other for SERT). The new EFI Super Tuner (Fisher Price) along with the new V-Tuner have been programed to work with usb connections but the older SERT....well your taking a BIG chance. If you do lock up your ECM there is a 'ECM Recovery' section in the 'Tuning Help Manuals'....just click on the Help in the menu bar.
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 983
Likes: 2
From: Wisconsin
RE: SERT cable connection
Well, I definitely do not want to lock up the ECM.
I went over to a computer store and they had a usb to serial port converter made by Sabrent. Is this one of the el cheapos, or a decent brand name? It says that it "Supports Windows Xp, Connects an additional serial peripheral in seconds,"and "Supports baud rates from 1,200 to 115.2k." I don't recall the baud rate off hand for the tuner, but I'll check before making a go with it.
UPS lost the air cleaner anyhow, so it's a few days behind the pipes whichare scheduled for deliverytoday. I won't be installing until Monday, so I can afford to be patient. Thanks again.
I went over to a computer store and they had a usb to serial port converter made by Sabrent. Is this one of the el cheapos, or a decent brand name? It says that it "Supports Windows Xp, Connects an additional serial peripheral in seconds,"and "Supports baud rates from 1,200 to 115.2k." I don't recall the baud rate off hand for the tuner, but I'll check before making a go with it.
UPS lost the air cleaner anyhow, so it's a few days behind the pipes whichare scheduled for deliverytoday. I won't be installing until Monday, so I can afford to be patient. Thanks again.
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
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RE: SERT cable connection
Doc, to change the subject slightly.
I've been doing a LOT of data logging in an effort to understand what's going on. The bike is an 07 FXSTC.
Here is a graph that I put together showing VE front and VE New Front plotted against RPM.
http://people.delphiforums.com/frisco42/VE.pdf
The hair on the curves is because at any given RPM there are data points at different MAP values, but the overall trend lines are obvious. VE New is 4 or 5% lower than the programmed VE values. VE rear is similar. Given this, when the ECM is in open loop as it is most of the time above about 4500 RPM can I assume that the system is running rich given that VE New is the same as VE under those conditions?
I've been doing a LOT of data logging in an effort to understand what's going on. The bike is an 07 FXSTC.
Here is a graph that I put together showing VE front and VE New Front plotted against RPM.
http://people.delphiforums.com/frisco42/VE.pdf
The hair on the curves is because at any given RPM there are data points at different MAP values, but the overall trend lines are obvious. VE New is 4 or 5% lower than the programmed VE values. VE rear is similar. Given this, when the ECM is in open loop as it is most of the time above about 4500 RPM can I assume that the system is running rich given that VE New is the same as VE under those conditions?
