Why adding harware over software solution?
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2007
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glens, yeah that's the thread a was referring to. So it seems that he "key" gives you the ability to create the maps using TR software, but the key ingreadient to reflash ECM you need the serial interface. It's easy enough to talk to the son again and just ask him if additional hardware is needed. I also try to talk about the TTS to him again and see how he feels about it...
Bluetoys, I agree with Tmax over PC, but there's really nothing wrong wih the stock ECM, and you have full control of all the params needed for a good tune with TTS (ie., software). This is definitely a hot topic...
Bluetoys, I agree with Tmax over PC, but there's really nothing wrong wih the stock ECM, and you have full control of all the params needed for a good tune with TTS (ie., software). This is definitely a hot topic...
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The Fuelpak makes me laugh. Sorry.
Between the TTS and TechnoResearch equipment, there's a bit more capability with the TTS.
Adding a tunable bike to your stable might be cheaper with the TR stuff if you've previously obtained the ECU-writing equipment. In that case, all you'd need to acquire is another USB key for the new ECU. If you contemplate this being a one-time/one-bike or one-time/two-bike acquisition, the complete TR setup for writing maps to the ECU is more expensive. If you merely want the ability to write a new map to your bike and have a nearby shop with the writing equipment then the TR would be worth serious consideration. But then again, the TTS system really is more capable, allowing you to fine-tune your map either semi-automatically or manually and you can write your tunes at will at home. You can even fetch the programming from your ECU and put it back later, if you want. I'm pretty sure there are more adjustments available via the TTS than the TR, too, including speedometer calibration.
Native ECU program variable manipulation is definitely the way to go. Our Delphi systems are really quite good; they have some neat features like Ion Sensing. (I just wish there was a reliable and unobtrusive way to make use of a MAF sensor)
There have to be latency issues with a piggyback unit of any kind, if nothing else. Plus there's at least one more major electrical interconnect. And you have to find some place to mount it and route any wiring. In a pinch it's okay. I used a PC-III for a bit over a year while deciding what I really wanted to do. I went with the TTS. And I'd been offered a really sweet deal on a DTT TCFI kit.
Between the TTS and TechnoResearch equipment, there's a bit more capability with the TTS.
Adding a tunable bike to your stable might be cheaper with the TR stuff if you've previously obtained the ECU-writing equipment. In that case, all you'd need to acquire is another USB key for the new ECU. If you contemplate this being a one-time/one-bike or one-time/two-bike acquisition, the complete TR setup for writing maps to the ECU is more expensive. If you merely want the ability to write a new map to your bike and have a nearby shop with the writing equipment then the TR would be worth serious consideration. But then again, the TTS system really is more capable, allowing you to fine-tune your map either semi-automatically or manually and you can write your tunes at will at home. You can even fetch the programming from your ECU and put it back later, if you want. I'm pretty sure there are more adjustments available via the TTS than the TR, too, including speedometer calibration.
Native ECU program variable manipulation is definitely the way to go. Our Delphi systems are really quite good; they have some neat features like Ion Sensing. (I just wish there was a reliable and unobtrusive way to make use of a MAF sensor)
There have to be latency issues with a piggyback unit of any kind, if nothing else. Plus there's at least one more major electrical interconnect. And you have to find some place to mount it and route any wiring. In a pinch it's okay. I used a PC-III for a bit over a year while deciding what I really wanted to do. I went with the TTS. And I'd been offered a really sweet deal on a DTT TCFI kit.
Cruiser
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From: Irmo, SC
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Running the DTT TCFI IID w/WEGO for two years, i have experienced first hand how they work, and if you are proficient with the system, you can get a fine tune, but there is a learning curve. You can adjust timing, fuel, adder tables etc and get to 90-95% tune without a dyno. T-Max, well you can also get pretty close but not quite the same capabilitites.
Most of the add ons will only adjust AFR and not timing, although on a stock bike, you may not need to play with the timing and a PC or other add on might be just fine, but you really dont know where you are at as far as A/F in all throttle and load conditions, could be righ in some places and lean in others. A dyno with a sniffer is the only way to know for sure using those systems.
I have re-installed the stock ecm and will be reprogramming it with the TTS, using the v-tune functionality to get it close, then finally going on a dyno for final tweaking. The DTT worked just fine, but I do want to see what differences can be had with the TTS.
Most of the add ons will only adjust AFR and not timing, although on a stock bike, you may not need to play with the timing and a PC or other add on might be just fine, but you really dont know where you are at as far as A/F in all throttle and load conditions, could be righ in some places and lean in others. A dyno with a sniffer is the only way to know for sure using those systems.
I have re-installed the stock ecm and will be reprogramming it with the TTS, using the v-tune functionality to get it close, then finally going on a dyno for final tweaking. The DTT worked just fine, but I do want to see what differences can be had with the TTS.
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Let me know, won't you? I passed up a very sweet offer on a current TCFI package to go with the TTS. The closed-loop Delphi system is really pretty neat.
If a person had a capable piggyback tuner they could always get a TwinScan II+ kit to generate fueling maps and tweak the spark timing, but that pair of equipment will certainly exceed the TTS in cost, so it should still be a no-brainer.
ngoti8tor, why did you quote my whole post? I re-read it all to get back up to speed so I could best understand what you were going to say. Then you only addressed my first sentence. Next time, please quote just the relevant material, okay? Thanks. Your Fuelpak is not what I'd call a capable tuner mainly because you cannot tweak it to fine-tune apart from whatever cryptic instructions their engineers might have to offer. You could get a TwinScan kit to measure AFR and datalog the ECM, but it would do you precious little good if the readings weren't to your satisfaction.
Besides, tweaking is fun and can make the even funner riding even funner.
If a person had a capable piggyback tuner they could always get a TwinScan II+ kit to generate fueling maps and tweak the spark timing, but that pair of equipment will certainly exceed the TTS in cost, so it should still be a no-brainer.
ngoti8tor, why did you quote my whole post? I re-read it all to get back up to speed so I could best understand what you were going to say. Then you only addressed my first sentence. Next time, please quote just the relevant material, okay? Thanks. Your Fuelpak is not what I'd call a capable tuner mainly because you cannot tweak it to fine-tune apart from whatever cryptic instructions their engineers might have to offer. You could get a TwinScan kit to measure AFR and datalog the ECM, but it would do you precious little good if the readings weren't to your satisfaction.
Besides, tweaking is fun and can make the even funner riding even funner.
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Your Fuelpak is not what I'd call a capable tuner mainly because you cannot tweak it to fine-tune apart from whatever cryptic instructions their engineers might have to offer. You could get a TwinScan kit to measure AFR and datalog the ECM, but it would do you precious little good if the readings weren't to your satisfaction.
Besides, tweaking is fun and can make the even funner riding even funner.
Besides, tweaking is fun and can make the even funner riding even funner.
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From: Indy area
You don't need to dyno it if you use the TTS with vtune or any of the capable piggyback tuners (read that as PC-something) in conjunction with the Daytona TwinScan II+. That's the point we've been trying to make. It's possible to do this stuff right at home with the best combinations of available equipment.
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