No spark. ECM?
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Tourer
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From: front door of Glacier NP
Lonewolf: As I have stated, the dots on the cams are facing each other, when the crank and cam drive timing marks are lined up. Now, explain to me how the engine senses compression? I am not aware of any sensor in the system that can do that. Also, as I have an FLHP, it has automatic compression releases. I will gladly do a compression check this weekend but unfortunately if I have low compression, it would imply that I bent a valve or two or four. When I initially did the cam install, I had the plugs out and rotated the engine by spinning the rear wheel. The engine rotated freely or at least there did not appear to be any mechanical interference that I could detect. Then I hooked up battery (with plugs out) and spun the engine to build oil pressure. Which the engine did, at least to the point that the oil pressure light went out. Now, explain to me why I have no spark when I used the stock ECM and the TMAT? Everytime I run this scenario throught the few remaining synapses I have left....everything points to the coil. I wonder if spinning the engine with the plugs out of the boots toasted the coil? I appreciate your input.
Last edited by FLHP1034ME; May 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM.
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Tourer
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From: front door of Glacier NP
Back again. Still have no spark/no start. Pulled the coil. Let me say that the offishul HD shop manual (99483-07) leaves a bit to be desired when it comes to an issue such as this. Is there an HD electrical troubleshooting type manual? If so, part number? Anyways, I put the Fluke DVOM to the coil to try to get some numbers on the primary side and the secondary side. Here is what I have: primary resistance: 0.5 ohms. secondary: 5.96 K ohms. NOW, before ya'll stick it to me, I have no idea what "normal values" on this coil should be. It seems HD wants to keep that as top secret as possible. I am hoping that somebody out there might have a reference that can quote me numbers so I can make some sense of this ongoing saga. SOOOOooooo...if anybody can shoot me some standard numbers, I would appreciate it. From what I can figure out comparing to Evo coils, that secondary resistance is a bit off. I also believe the primary side is suspect. BUT I don't know that for a fact.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Vancouver Island B.C.
The ECM uses the crank position sensor to sense compression,as the flywheel slows down on the compression stroke. That's why you need to have plugs in the holes to check for spark. I will dig out my electrical manual and see what it says.
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Tourer
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From: front door of Glacier NP
OK. I guess I will buy that although it does not quite make sense to me. Remember I have compression releases. The other issue is that I have tried spinning the engine with spark plugs in, while grounding a separate plug to the fins on the cylinder. No spark. Front or rear. If you have an electrical manual where the heck did you get it and do you have a part number? Also, if you have an electrical manual, would it by any strange chance have primary/secondary resistance specs for the coil? I do appreciate your input. Thanks!
Last edited by FLHP1034ME; May 20, 2010 at 08:49 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: on the mud flats on the edge of slum city
TP roller tipped rockers........
Did you clearance the rocker box covers?
Because if they hit the covers the valve never closes and you don't get compression and you don't get a spark.
For **** and giggles remove the rocker covers and see if it starts.
Did you clearance the rocker box covers?
Because if they hit the covers the valve never closes and you don't get compression and you don't get a spark.
For **** and giggles remove the rocker covers and see if it starts.
Novice
Joined: May 2010
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I don't know if this will help. I ran into a simular problem on a 01 Heritage. After checking everything you mentioned and then some, all roads lead to a bad ECM. On a whim I went through the set password procedure and the bike fired right up. I don't have security either, but as it turns out, the ECM and and the TSM have to negotiate a password before you can start the engine. If the password is lost, the ECM will not produce the pulses needed to fire the coil or operate the injectors. Apparently the password was lost or corrupted and just needed to be reset. You should have the set password procedure in your service manual under replacing the ECM. Might be worth a try?
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Tourer
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From: front door of Glacier NP
No spark. ECM?
I don't know if this will help. I ran into a simular problem on a 01 Heritage. After checking everything you mentioned and then some, all roads lead to a bad ECM. On a whim I went through the set password procedure and the bike fired right up. I don't have security either, but as it turns out, the ECM and and the TSM have to negotiate a password before you can start the engine. If the password is lost, the ECM will not produce the pulses needed to fire the coil or operate the injectors. Apparently the password was lost or corrupted and just needed to be reset. You should have the set password procedure in your service manual under replacing the ECM. Might be worth a try?
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I have made a few assumptions. First that you have an ECM and a TSM (turn signal module) that operate simular to mine, that the other sensors are probably working, the output of the CKP sensor is supplying better than 1V AC during cranking, and you have proper voltages where they should be. Proper voltages meaning the system relay, fuses, connectors, switches are operational, and the wiring ohms out point to point.
Could be as simple as a bad ground, but I'm also assuming you would have checked them earlier in the trouble shooting.
If it were the bank sensor, at least on mine, the starter is also disabled.
That pretty much leaves the ECM and the TSM. I have heard that you can loose the password if you have the ECM out of the bike for an extended period, but have never experienced it myself. Had it in and out no problem. I've also heard that Harley has had problems with the TSM, but I can't swear to that.
The stock ECM and the TSM have to be married as such to operate the fuel injection system. That involves a long and lengthy learning process for my setup.
In the end, you still may have a bad ECM or TSM, but the symptoms are very simular to what was going on with my bike.
Could be as simple as a bad ground, but I'm also assuming you would have checked them earlier in the trouble shooting.
If it were the bank sensor, at least on mine, the starter is also disabled.
That pretty much leaves the ECM and the TSM. I have heard that you can loose the password if you have the ECM out of the bike for an extended period, but have never experienced it myself. Had it in and out no problem. I've also heard that Harley has had problems with the TSM, but I can't swear to that.
The stock ECM and the TSM have to be married as such to operate the fuel injection system. That involves a long and lengthy learning process for my setup.
In the end, you still may have a bad ECM or TSM, but the symptoms are very simular to what was going on with my bike.